Life Of The Freelancer

How To Get Actionable Advice From Hundreds Of Freelancers

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 12:00:00 +0000

I’m very excited to bring you a huge announcement today.

Since Life Of The Freelancer was launched in July of 2010 we’ve gotten tens of thousands of visitors to the site. The podcast has been growing like mad and there are more than 2,000 regular listeners subscribed on iTunes.

Before I get to the announcement I’d like to thank you for being a regular visitor and subscriber. I know how hard it can be freelancing, and the entire purpose of Life Of The Freelancer is to help you build a thriving freelance business. And that’s what today is all about.

I’m very excited to announce the launch of FreelanceSuccessTips.com.

Please take a listen to this short video and find out how this new membership site will help ensure your success in freelancing.

And here’s an audio version for you too!

Click here to learn more and sign up for FreelanceSuccessTips.com.

Winning An Emmy To Freelance PR – with Sarah Maronn

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 15 Mar 2011 12:00:28 +0000

Sarah Maronn is a self-employed freelance PR professional. She left the TV news business (after winning an Emmy) to work for a PR agency. Last year though she left agency life to work on her own and quickly gained several clients. Working out of Denver, Colorado, Sarah is building her PR empire at SNO Public Relations.

In this interview with Sarah find out how she made the transition from big media to PR, and then strike off on her own.

Big Time Sports And Business Consulting – with Dr. Jim Taylor

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Dr. Jim Taylor is internationally recognized for his work in the psychology of performance in business, parenting, and sport. He has been a consultant to and has provided individual and group training to executives and businesses throughout the North and South America, Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. He is a frequent speaker at Young Presidents’ Organization events internationally.

And this is one doctor that totally gets social media. He’s active on his website – drjimtaylor.com – as well as Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube. The man is a machine!

Take a listen to this audio-only interview with the doctor as he tells us what it’s like being a full-time consultant and sharing his lessons.

Agent For Award Winning Music Stars – with John Ullman

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:00:00 +0000

John Ullman has a story that you have to hear to believe. He was a freelance agent for award-winning music stars including Queen Ida and her Zydeco Band, and many others. In his career, he has worked with a half dozen Grammy Awardees, about a dozen Grammy Nominees, and two dozen recipients of the National Endowment of the Arts Heritage Fellowship award. In the process he and his wife Irene Namkung have had a great time and made a comfortable living.

In this interview with John he tells how he got into the music business, and how he landed huge award-winning music stars as clients. His story is a true inspiration and one I am very excited and happy to share with you.

My apologies on the audio on this video. My testing of a new microphone continued. For the video version you can hear John clearly and me barely – but I’m sure that’s allright with you. The audio version has much better audio.

Click here to view the embedded video.

And here’s the audio:

Rails Development And Artistry – With Rick Bradley

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 03 Mar 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Rick Bradley is a Ruby on Rails developer and a sometimes artist, based in Nashville, TN. Rick is a member of the trio that founded OG Consulting. No, Rick isn’t gansta. But he is a very cool dude with a lot of experience.

Check out this interview with Rick where he tells us all about the experience founding a successful software development firm with a few good friends. And after, head on over to RickBradley.com to learn more about Rick and tell him hello.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Or take a listen if you prefer…

Can Lawyers Social Media? Yes They Can – With Ben Wright

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Attorney Benjamin Wright is the author of technology law books, including The Law of Electronic Commerce (Aspen Publishers) and Business Law and Computer Security (SANS). A featured speaker at industry conferences and professional meetings, Wright teaches e-discovery, data security and cyber investigations law at the SANS Institute. Mr. Wright advises clients on digital law and forensic investigations. He is a pioneer in the promotion of public relations to address Internet legal issues and crises.

I was introduced to Ben through a HARO request and had a great time talking with him. He has a lot to offer. Who says attorneys can’t use social media? Ben can and does like a pro.

Watch this interview with Ben and then learn moe about him and his services on his blog – Electronic Data Records Law.

Quick note about the audio – my audio on the video is very low, but Ben’s is perfect. His answers and lessons are what counts so you’re covered there. However thanks to the editing powers of Audacity the volume on the audio only version (below) is consistent.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Take a listen if you prefer….

Freelancing As A Serious Business – with Shane Pearlman

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Shane Pearlman has been in interviews here at Life Of The Freelancer before. But today Shane and I go one-one-one.

To give more background, Shane is a freelance evangelist, distributed workforce expert, speaker, writer, SEO, and all around great guy to know. And I believe there’s a bit of woodworking in there somewhere too, but you’ll have to ask him about that.

Find out in this video how Shane built a successful business servicing very well known companies, with a workforce made entirely of freelancers. And after that, connect with Shane on his site – ShanePearlman.com – and on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Or take a listen if you prefer…

The League Of Extraordinary Web Developers – With Ron Evans

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:00:00 +0000

There are many ways to run an insanely successful web development company, and The Hybrid Group is one of them. Headed up by Ron Evans, the guy in today’s interview that you won’t want to miss – The Hybrid Group is a Los Angeles based software development firm, specializing in Ruby on Rails, JavaScript, cloud computing, mobile development, and most importantly, helping their clients solve problems.

If you want to see how a company composed entirely of freelancers cannot only succeed but do extremely well, then check out this interview with Ron. And after the interview check out The Hybrid Group site and connect with Ron and company on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

… or take a listen

Turn A Passion For Writing Into A Business – with Beth Barany

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Beth Barany is a coach and teacher for writers and those who want to write. She’s done so in two of her favorite places in the world: the San Francisco Bay Area and Paris, France. We are all jealous. Beth is driven to help writers and authors get their message out into the world, gain confidence in their self-expression and discover how they can get noticed and sell books to their audience. And she’s got credentials! Beth is certified as a Creativity Coach and an EFL-instructor.

In this interview Beth takes us from her love of writing as a child through her freelance career and then how she became a coach for other writers. If you’ve been wondering how you can turn your passion for writing into a business, this is the interview for you.

After watching the interview with Beth find out more about her and the help she can offer at BethBarany.com.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Listen to this if you prefer…

Building Better Teams Through Improv And Comedy – with Jessie Shternshus

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 10 Feb 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Jessie Shternshus took her background in improvisational acting into that place where comedy and communication is needed the most – the corporation. As the founder and owner of the Improv Effect, Jessie helps build better teams and improve communication through improv.

This is one interview you’ll just have to watch to grasp all the awesome. I have friends in software development that worked with Jessie and speak extremely highly of her. Watch the interview and then learn more about Jessie and her company, The Improv Effect.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Or take a listen!

Evolving Brands, Engaging Websites, and Empowering Business – with Lea Alcantara

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Lea Alcantara is the awesome force behind Lealea Design, a studio based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada providing print and web services to clients all over Canada, the United States, the UK, and even Asia. People hire Lea to help their niche-market businesses, big and small, reach their goals.

In this interview Lea talks about what it takes to be a successful independent web studio, how the podcast she’s a part of helps her business, and much more. Watch the interview with Lea and then find out more about her design studio, Lealea Design.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Take a listen instead!

Serial Web Entrepreneur And Startup Founder – with Rob Walling

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Rob Walling is a serial web entrepreneur and startup founder, and has been at it for more than 11 years. Living and working out of Fresno, California, Rob has been building web applications professionally for 10 years. He’s also worked as a consultant, a freelance developer, the development manager for the City of Pasadena, and a team lead for the world’s largest prepaid credit card company.

Rob has has many successes, and learned many lessons from businesses that didn’t work out.

In this interview Rob talks about what he’s learned over the past 11 years, and what other budding web entrepreneurs can do to be successful today.

Take a listen to this interview and then connect with Rob on his website – Software By Rob – and then talk with him on Twitter.

International Speaker and Author – with Patrick Schwerdtfeger

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 01 Feb 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Patrick Schwerdtfeger is the founder of Tactical Execution; a company that leverages progressive marketing strategies to build credibility and exposure for its clients. Patrick is an award winning speaker and has given hundreds of workshops and seminars across the United States and western Canada.

He has a great story of surviving rounds of layoffs, becoming self-employed, trying numerous businesses, finding online marketing, and becoming an international speaker.

He took some time out of his very busy schedule to talk with me about how he used his background in marketing to transition to a full-time public speaker.

Take a listen to this interview with Patrick, absorb all the lessons he provides, and then connect with him on his professional website and on Twitter.

Profit Sooner From Software Projects – with J.B. Rainsberger

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

J.B. Rainsberger

JB Rainsberger helps companies profit sooner from software projects with a combination of consulting, coaching, training, and speaking. I knew of J.B. from his excellent reputation in software development and Agile consulting. J.B. is one of those people with seemingly infinite patience and an impassioned drive to improve the working conditions of many.

Watch how J.B. makes it all happen in this interview, and then connect with him on his website – jbrains – and on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Take a listen perhaps…

From Nanny For Hire To Dr. Phil – with Candi Wingate

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 25 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Candi Wingate

Candi Wingate is the very definition of a successful freelancer and entrepreneur. She is an expert in the child care industry with over 20 years experience. She is the founder of Nannies4Hire.com and Care4Hire.com, and author of 100 Tips for Nannies & Families and The Nanny Factor: A Parent’s Guide to Finding the Right Nanny for Your Family.

Her experience has led her to create relationships with Dr. Phil, Supernanny, TLC, and many big name celebrities.

Candi has a ton of lessons to share in this audio only 20 minute interview so get ready to take notes.

Building An Award-Winning Design Agency – with Ann Jordan

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Ann Jordan is a founding partner of UNIT design collective, an award-winning multi-disciplinary design firm dedicated to creating cohesive brand experiences for their clients. At UNIT, Ann leads a team of designers, copywriters, strategists, and developers to provide memorable, award-winning solutions for a wide array of clients – from start-ups, non-profits, and large corporations like Herbalife and Toyota.

Previously, Ann has had the opportunity to team with notable design firms such as Mortensen Design, Alterpop, and Turner Duckworth while specializing in branding and packaging. Ann has received many accolades for her work in publication such as Print, Communication Arts, Graphic Design USA, Graphis, and many more.

In short, Ann is extremely talented and really, really knows her stuff. In this interview she imparts many lessons that will help anyone looking to build their own business.

Audio only for this one so please take a listen!

Combining Powers For PR Firm Success – with Holly Jordano

Using Guru Marketing Tactics And Psychology For Good

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

I’ve gotten a lot of great emails from you all about the topics I can discuss on the site. Please keep them coming.

But before we get to that, there’s a bit of a wall I see many people running into. Let me break down that wall now.

The other day I was having a conversation with a consultant friend of mine about using email marketing and how it applies to his business. He was worried that it wouldn’t be a good fit, as he’d only seen “gurus” using it and he didn’t want to be shady like them.

Yeah, neither do I.

In this video I talk about using marketing psychology and tactics – the same used by the shady people – but using it for good. These tactics can, I believe, completely help your business, at a very minimum helping increase your exposure and income, when done right.

Click here to view the embedded video.

… or take a listen if you prefer…

Either way, let me know…

What do you think?

Are you worried about using things like email marketing and affiliate marketing because of all the shady people out there? Are you using to great affect?

Let’s talk about it in the comments below.

Tales Of A Chicken Fried Software Micro-ISV – with Pat Maddox

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Pat Maddox is a practicing programmer. He provides consulting for software projects, and develops products through his micro-ISV Chicken Fried Software. His interests include automated testing, Ruby, Seaside, Agile, iOS programming, dog training, and cooking.

Pat is publishing an iPad app for teachers – EasyBoard – in the next few weeks to look for that on the iTunes store.

In this interview Pat gives a ton of advice and lessons on working for yourself and starting your own micro-ISV (independent software vendor). Check out the interview and then learn more about Pat on his website PatMaddox.com, and connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

… or take a listen instead.

3D and VFX Artistry, Coworking And Kayaking – with Spencer Lindsay

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

When you hear Spencer Lindsay talk about what he does sure it sounds like a lot of work, but it also sounds like a heck of a lot of fun.

Spencer is a 3D and VFX (visual effects) artist, and the founder of Lindsay Digital. Working out of a coworking space in California, Spence has landed big clients like Plantronics and Rambus. Learn how he did it while working out of a coworking spot in Cali.

And after the interview check out Spence’s awesome demo reel at his company site – Lindsay Digital – and connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Get it here:

Small Biz Web Consulting – with Glen McNiel

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Glen McNiel is one cool cat. Originally from Dallas, Texas, Glen now lives in Chiang Mai, Thailand (a place we will be staying for some months) and works with small businesses to seriously ramp up their online efforts.

Glen knows how to bring in the customers, connect with them with copy, and convert those folks into sales.

He’s also one of the people in the Internet Marketing world that I have respect for – he’s an honest guy and doesn’t use Jedi mind tricks to get people to buy.

Check out this interview with Glen where he shares the secrets of his success.

Your Freelance Questions Answered – Karl

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 10 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Over on Reddit they have a freelance section where people ask questions and post links to articles they’ve found helpful. Sometimes when you comment you’ll get an email with more questions.

I got one such email from Karl.

Karl mentioned that he got his first freelance client and was going to their office in few day to sign a contract. They wanted him to sign theirs, and was looking for advice.

Karl wrote:

Hey, I found you through your site (and Reddit), and I’m really thankful for your articles and advices about freelancing.

I’m about to start a 3-month contract with a company, my first, non-oDesk freelance work and I was wondering if you can answer some of the questions I have. Actually you’ve answered most of them in that post in Reddit but I still have some questions and clarifications.

Here are Karl’s questions, along with my answers.

How soon should I incorporate into an LLC? My contract is already starting next week.

Right away. I don’t suggest doing any contract work without having some form of company in front of you. There are many reasons for this, with the two biggies being liability and taxes.

People argue all the time about whether or not a corporation will shield you from liability. Now I’m no lawyer, but I pay mine $250 an hour for advice, and he tells me to always hava a corporation. Depending on what state you’re in, it may need to be a specific form to offer the protection.

Once you have the corporation in place, sign EVERYTHING on behalf of the company. I get to be CEO of my web development business, so I always put “CEO” beside my name and ensure that the company’s name is on there as well.

Here are 22 more reasons to incorporate your freelance business.

I plan on hiring a CPA on oDesk to help me manage my taxes. However, I was also recommended this company’s [link removed] services. What are your opinions on this?

I am thankful for my CPA. There is no way I can keep track of depreciation, etc., no matter what software I use. I email my CPA my financials (profit/loss, balance sheet, itemized capital expenditures) and get back a packet of papers all filled out ready to sign and send to the IRS with whatever I owe them. I don’t own a printer and I’m not about to find one just to print my taxes.

Also, and this is a biggie – if you are audited by the IRS, which I hear sucks, then your CPA will stand by you. If you are on your own, it’s you and big brother.

Can you confirm that I will not include taxes in my invoices for the client?

I’m not sure how it is for every state, but as far as I know, if you are providing services to a customer you do not charge them tax. If you sell a product you do. I know this is true for Florida, but check with your state corporation commission on the final rules, or ask a CPA in your state.

I plan to modify and use that free service contract you posted. Aside from the contracts between me and my client, what else should I bring for our first meeting?

In this case the contract is good. If you are not yet in the contract phase, I recommend using a mutual non-disclosure agreement so that the client feels comfortable sharing proprietary information with you.

You mentioned that invoices and payment terms will be stipulated in the contract(s). What do you suggest is an effective way to bill the client?

I like to bill on a weekly basis (meaning bill in week long chunks rather than hourly), and up front whenever possible. Unless we’re dealing with our very large clients and their corporate bureaucracy, payment terms are “due upon receipt” without exception. This works for our clients, and keeps things very simple for us.

What are your freelancing questions?

The more I read forums like Reddit and Freelance Switch, the more I realize that there are a lot of people coming into freelancing without having any business experience. This is not surprising, as many 9-to-5ers are never taught the business side of things, only to do the specific job they are hired to do.

As a freelancer you are responsible for every part of your business – sales, marketing, finance, operations, production. There’s a lot to learn and fast.

But it doesn’t have to be hard, and you are not alone.

If you have any questions about the business side of freelancing, please leave a comment below, ask right here on the site, or ask on Facebook.

Interactive Architecture, Technology, and Mad Science – with Scott Ahten

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

Scott Ahten, the founder of Ahten Industries, is an interactive architect, technologist and mad scientist in Orlando FL. Prior to starting his own consultancy in 2006, he was a freelancer with the Devotion Media group and lead interactive developer at the new-media design agency Silent Planet. Scott also creates real-time visuals for live events using an ever-mutating combination of custom software and off the shelf hardware.

Take a listen to this interview with Scott, then connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Or take a listen if you prefer

PR And Marketing With A Science Perspective – with Lisa Ann Pinkerton

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 13:00:00 +0000

From the newsroom to the boardroom, Lisa Ann Pinkerton has used her keen communication, analytical and strategic skills to grow businesses for over a decade. As a former award-winning journalist for National Public Radio, PBS and NBC, Lisa Ann acutely understands how persona, storytelling and interpersonal communication interact to make people charismatic and memorable. Whether the sector is consumer oriented or business to business, in technology, healthcare, education or environmental sustainability, Lisa Ann leads companies and small businesses through the web of new and traditional marketing strategies to select the ones that will most effectively bolster their business goals.

Her services range from branding and social media, to media relations outreach, web development, speaking circuits and relationship networking. Before founding Technica, Lisa Ann was a Senior Account Executive and managed new business operations and marketing for San Francisco’s premier clean technology PR firm Antenna Group. She got her start as a local and national broadcast journalist in Ohio and Pennsylvania for National Public Radio, PBS Television, WPXI-NBC, WRCT 88.3FM, WYEP 91.3 FM and American Public Media. She holds a Master of Arts Management and Bachelor of Fine Art from Carnegie Mellon University.

In short she’s super smart, very experienced, and has a lot of lessons. Take a listen.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Or take a listen if you prefer

Transform Ideas Into Software Reality – With Ryan McGeary

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Ryan McGeary, a web developer from my hometown area of Northern Virginia, is the founder of McGeary Consulting Group, a software development and consulting firm that transforms ideas into reality with elegant solutions.

Ryan provides a ton of advice for those building businesses from home. Watch or listen, then learn more about Ryan on his site.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Or take a listen if you prefer

The Family Business of Web Design and Development – With Collin Robinson

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Collin’s background dates back to the early 90′s when we was doing print design for yearbooks and newspapers in his high school. A few years at art school down in Long Beach, CA was all Collin needed to gain the confidence, and degree, to start a design business with his wife… that was back in 2001.

In this interview we talk about everything from starting a business to working with your spouse and kids and much more. And speaking of kids, see if you can spot a little someone running around in the background.

After you’ve won that challenge learn more about Collin’s company CJGraphix, and connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Or take a listen if you prefer

WordPress, SEO, and Web Strategy – With Chuck Reynolds

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Chuck Reynolds handles Web Strategy at rYnoweb in Chandler Arizona. rYnoweb specializes in WordPress and Search Engine Optimization (SEO) while helping professionals and small business with local search, location-based marketing and reputation management.

Chuck is heavily engaged in the local community, organizing WordCamp Phoenix annually with over 500 attendees in its first year, helping with PodCampAz, an un-conference about emerging digital tech, and is involved with the City of Chandler Arizona and speaks at various industry conferences regularly. You can find him online practically everywhere, working at all hours of the night and when not working is fidgeting with a new gadget, riding his mountain bike and hiking and camping throughout the backcountry in Arizona.

Click here to view the embedded video.

And in audio format for those that love to listen:

Marketing For The Small Business And Large Non Profit – With Amanda Blum

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Amanda is the founder of Howling Zoe Productions, a company that provides a complete marketing approach for small businesses, startups, and non-profits. In short, she helps her clients figure out how to better communicate with their client base, and bring in more clients.

Amanda has a great story that shows how doing great work, being yourself, doing what you love, helping others, and being unable to explain your parents what you do is a formula for success.

Learn more about Amanda on her site – Howling Zoe Productions – and then connect with her personal Twitter account, or her business one.

Audio only folks, so take a listen!

Video Production And Animation Mastery – With Leo Procopio

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

I first met Leo Procopio when we were in the same MBA class at Rollins Crummer Graduate School of Business. It wasn’t long before Leo’s group was the envy of all on presentation day, as Leo lended a hand with his master video production skills to make some of the most memorable and enjoying presentations.

Leo is part of the dynamic duo at STLEO, an integrated marketing agency with offices in Orlando, FL and Laguna Beach, CA. He’s also the creator of My Strait Jacket, a living web comic that has grown a large audience in very little time, and whose characters all have Twitter accounts.

You can also connect with Leo himself on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Take a listen instead.

The Importance Of Having A Strategy

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

At WordCamp MSP I presented on the all out massive action of turning your business into a media powerhouse (view the presentation on slideshare). On slide 9 I have a single bullet point at the bottom that says, “Strategy at the core.” This one bullet point is perhaps the most important point in the entire presentation.

Strategy, a word of military origin, refers to a plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal.
- Wikipedia

For many freelancers, the goal is to stay in business for themselves and continue to live the life they want to lead. To make this happen, you need a steady flow of customers. So the goal is really to generate a continuous flow of customers, which is where turning your business into a media company comes into play.

However, just having a media distribution system isn’t enough. Sure you can distribute your content wide and deep, but then what?

This is where strategy comes into play.

That’s all for now, but this is a topic we’ll be digging into quite a bit over the next few weeks on the site. If you have any questions relating to strategy please leave them in the comments and we’ll be sure to hit on those points for you.

Rails Development And Successful Web Apps – With Josh Owens

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Josh Owens is Ruby on Rails developer, an engineer for Rails Machine, a podcaster, and the proprietor of Four Bean Soup, a company that builds tasty web apps, including Tweet Hopper, which allows you to easily control multiple twitter accounts from a single spot.

I’ve known Josh for a number of years from the Rails community, and he has a great story of hard work, connecting with others, and building businesses.

Take a listen to this interview with Josh, then find out more about his company Four Bean Soup, and connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Take a listen instead:

Exercise Your Options

Robert Dempsey — Sun, 12 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

If you have options, consider yourself fortunate.

As I buzz around my wife’s hometown on my sleek orange motorcycle – the first stop on our Thailand adventure – I see people that have very few. I see people that are one step away from camping out – they live in small wood houses, cook on fires made from gathered wood, and scrape out a meager existence on a small piece of land or in a small shop they own.

Down another road I see a large shiny new house lived in by a local politician, surrounded by his land. I see multiple cars in his long, paved driveway, a few of them under cover and a few out front.

I sit in a rented house surrounded by computer equipment and do my business, chatting with friends, colleagues, and others all over the world

Since you are reading this, you are much further along than most of the people I saw today will ever get – many don’t own computers, don’t know what a blog is, and definitely don’t know about services like Twitter or Facebook

And yet they are happy. They are happy to be surrounded by family.

Of course in the larger cities it’s a different story.

So what’s my point?

I don’t really know. But I do know I have options – options that I feel very fortunate to have – and I’m choosing to exercise them.

My family and I chose to come to Thailand for 6 months, or perhaps a year. We chose to bring our dog too. I chose to set up my business so that we could be location independent.

These are all options I’ve exercised, options that came from making choices and trade-offs.

It makes me sad when people know they have options, and yet they do nothing. People tell me “Jeez Rob it’s really cool what you do, I wish I could do that.” Well guess what, they could if they really wanted to.
So I’m here to tell you that you have more options than you probably realize. It may take some time until you can exercise them, it may mean that you might have to make some tough choices and trade-offs.

But ultimately, you have options. And if you never choose one, then it’s all on you.

What’s holding you back?

WE4WE Video – Michelle Ward

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 18:00:00 +0000

Michelle Ward, the When I Grow Up Coach, spoke with the first WE4WE audience about putting yourself first.

Check out the video and then connect with Michelle on her site – When I Grow Up, or on Twitter.

And if you can’t get enough Michelle with those goodies, check out the interview that Michelle did with me where she talks about building a successful career coaching practice.

I had the great fortune to work with Michelle for a number of months, and as a coach I can say she’s excellent. It was her positive personality and outlook that really attracted me as a client, and made it a joy to work with her. If you can manage to get on her schedule, definitely do.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here you go!

WE4WE Video – Danielle LaPorte

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

For the first WE3WE webinar Danielle LaPorte spoke about cash fulfillment.

Check out the video and then connect with Danielle on her site – White Hot Truth, or on Twitter.

It was thanks to Alexandra Franzen that Danielle was a speaker on the webinar, and I was very happy to meet her and have a chance to talk before. From everything that everyone said about Danielle she was a must have speaker, and it turned out to be so true.

Danielle spent less than half of her time talking about cash fulfillment (she’s very to the point) and the rest answering questions. Pure awesome, so take a listen.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here you go.

Building A Busy Copy Writing Business With No Marketing – with Josh Fox

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Think you need a complex and complete marketing plan before you launch your business?

Perhaps, but perhaps not.

Josh Fox is a freelance copywriter and content strategist for digital marketing, advertising, interactive experiences, direct mail, and just about any other messaging medium. His clients range from startups and SMBs to global corporations like Bank of America and Walmart.

I met Josh a number of years ago when we were working for a mutual client of ours – Moving Off Campus. It must have been providence that Josh and I connected as I live online, and he has no website and does no marketing whatsoever. Find out how he did it in this interview, and then see some examples of his work and get in touch. I highly recommend working with Josh if you need copy.

WE4WE Video – Christine Pietryla

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 18:00:00 +0000

During the first WE4WE webinar, Christine Pietryla talked about personal branding.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here you go.

WE4WE Video – Alexandra Franzen

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

On the first WE3WE webinar, Alexandra Franzen did a talk on Pro-Bono burnout.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here you go.

Building A Biz Developing WordPress Plugins – with Nick Ohrn

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Nick Ohrn is a software developer based in Seattle, WA in specialize in WordPress and Windows Phone 7 development. He has been a freelancer for over 2 years, starting directly after graduation from the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology with a degree in Computer Science.

If you need a WordPress plugin developed, get in touch with Nick on his site Plugin-Developer, connect with him on Twitter, and also check out his book, WordPress 2.8 Themes Cookbook.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here you go.

Hello From Thailand

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

During the week of Thanksgiving my family and I left New Ulm, MN and headed to Los Angeles, where after spending a day and a night left for Thailand. So far we’ve been here a little more than a week of the 6 months planned for this trip.

None of this would be possible if I hadn’t set up my business from the beginning so that we could be 100% location independent. So far I haven’t missed a call with a client, publishing posts on multiple blogs (including this one), keeping in touch with friends and colleagues in the United States, or anything else.

Location independence is completely possible, even with a young family.

Curious about Thailand? You can follow along with us as we travel Thailand, experience the culture, meet a lot of great people, and see some wonderful places, all while never missing a beat with business at My Thai Adventure.

Now here’s a little video I did about our trip.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Or listen to the audio.

Online Domination Through Code & Action – with Peter Cooper

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Peter Cooper is a husband, dad, computer scientist in training, Ruby developer, small-time publisher, successful author and editor (and generally an English language nut), and entrepreneur with two successful exits. He’s based in Louth, Lincolnshire, United Kingdom.

Visit Peterc.org for a list of all Peter’s projects (there are many), then connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? We have you covered.

Build A Network And Skills As A Nomad – with Corey Haines

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Corey Haines has a great story. For more than a year he traveled from place to place exchanging room and board for pair programming. During his time as a nomad, Corey built a huge network of connections, and greatly improved his skills as a software developer. And as an added bonus, he has a great story that people love to hear and tell.

Take a listen to this interview with Corey, then learn more about him on his website, and connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here you go.

Partner Up: From Corporate America to WordPress Powerhouse – with John Hawkins

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

John Hawkins quit his corporate job and teamed up with a few guys he knew and formed 9seeds, a company that focuses on custom WordPress development, and has a growing client list that includes Chris Brogan. In this video John talks about transitioning out of corporate America, running a WordCamp,

Learn more about John’s company at 9seeds.com, and then connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here you go!

Dogs Are People Too

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Having the correct message for the correct audience is extremely important and absolutely necessary when it comes to marketing. If you simply blanket people with robo-call like marketing, you’re going to turn them off real quick, and at worst they’ll go to the competition.

So let’s look at how to avoid that. And to do that, let me tell you a quick story.

I’m a dog owner, and now I don’t really like to use the term owner as I see my dog Lilo more as part of the family. She’s been with us from a pup, and my daughter has grown up with her – they’re great friends.

She is incorporated into my routine. Each morning I wake up and I take her for a walk. This morning I woke up and wanted to sleep in since I’d been up quite a bit last night. But I immediately thought of her and how she only gets out three times a day for a walk, unless I let her into the backyard. So if I didn’t walk her I would be robbing her of what she enjoys most, and what dogs enjoy doing is walking around outside, sniffing things, and of course going to the bathroom – something that’s important for all of us, not just for dogs.

To take this even further, soon we’re heading to Thailand, my wife’s home country, and we’re taking Lilo with us. We’re going to the added hassle and expense of taking her on an international trip. This is not very simple. There’s paperwork and fees. But we’re doing it because Lilo is a part of our family.

Now keep in mind we’re talking about a dog, and this is how I think of her, this is how we think of her. Because she’s been with us for so long, we’ve invested a lot of time in her. We’ve also gotten a lot of love from her over the years – dogs are great because they love you unconditionally. So because of all this she has become a complete part of our family not just a pet or something owned.

I tell you this story to make a point.

Let’s say that you have a product or service for a dog owner like me. What types of messages would you use? Would you tell me how your product is great because of this feature or that, or would you tell me about how it’s great for my dog and how much better she’ll feel because it? What types of images would you use to show that you understand that I really feel that my dog is a part of my family? Would you show me just a single person with their dog, or an entire family?

Or would you go the robo-call route and tell me in the same message how great it is for cats?

These are the things to think about with every piece of marketing that you create, every sales message that you craft. Think about who your audience is at a deeper level, not just the surface. You can’t take everything at face value. And once you know that and really understand them – something you can totally do – then you can connect with them at a core level and turn a future customer into a present customer.

And that’s how you keep your business going.

What do you think? Please leave a comment below and let me know.

The Never Ending Search For The Holy Grail Of Business

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Following up on a post I did about the marketing mindset versus the Internet marketing mindset, marketing is about longevity while Internet marketing is about using psychological tactics to sell you something as if it’s the one true answer.

Let me put it to you straight – there is no one true answer.

Having said that, there is a lot of value in the techniques that people teach you. These products, if you’re willing to put forth the money to purchase them, can provide you with new tactics that you can incorporate into your strategy. But that is what it is really all about, strategy.

Strategy is defined as a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result. My friend Scott Scanlon talks about this in one of his podcasts on DefiningNewMedia.com, where he calls it the “arc of marketing.” And what Scott is talking about there is looking into the future, seeing a goal, and then plotting your course towards that goal. And along the way to achieving that goal, you use tactics.

Strategy encompasses tactics. However, no single tactic will help you reach your goal, especially if you are missing the strategy.

Many people out there however, will sell you a tactic as if it is the end all to be all for improving your business. From talking with many successful freelancers, and in my own experience, this isn’t even close to being true. Because, what works for one person won’t necessarily work for you, at least not in the exact same way. Now that’s not to say that it absolutely will not work for you, but really there’s only one way to find out and that’s to test.

I’ve also found that tactics need to be used in combinations. For instance, e-mail marketing is very effective when combined with other techniques, for instance blogging or video podcasting or audio podcasting. And while a single tactic or technique like blogging can be highly effective, it can be more effective when you add in things like e-mail marketing. And going back to what this post is all about, when you use these tactics in combinations what you are really talking about is strategy.

Strategy implies that you have some goal that you wish to move towards. And that is what it starts with.

Let’s look at an example.

Let’s say that you have a product you wish to sell – I think that that’s the pretty common among readers and listeners here. Let’s also say that you have a certain amount or number of that product. So the goal in this case is to sell that number of product, and let’s also say that you want to do this within one month. What are some of the tactics that you could use to make this happen?

There are a number of ways to sell your product. You could create a sales page, and use some combination of video and text to talk all about the product, and try and make the sale. And you could then purchase pay-per-click or Facebook ads to drive traffic to that page, or if you have an e-mail list, you can send a message to that list and send them to the page. A very simple way to try and sell the product, would be to do a blog post about it, and either have a single product page on your website with your buy now button, or just put an add to cart button in the post itself. And yet another way would be to use a webinar, or teleconference. And if you have one month to sell this number of product, you could do a series of e-mails or blog posts or videos. All of these are tactics.

So which of these would you use? Would you use one or would you use many?

If you were going to go about it strategically, you would use a combination, for instance writing a series of blog posts, and combining that with e-mail marketing and a webinar. All of this would be spaced out over time throughout the month.

And this strategy might work for me with my audience, it might work for you with yours. But the point that I’m trying to get at, is that we have this large amount of tactics that we can use that by themselves can be effective, but are much more effective when used in combination within a larger strategy. So learn as many tactics as you can, figure out what your goal is, and then look at which tactics will help you to achieving that goal.

Lessons For Future Entrepreneurs – with Jeff Watts

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 18 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Jeff Watts is the founder of Strong Academy, a school for entrepreneurs-to-be. Jeff and I spoke about the current state of work, the future of work, how entrepreneurs will pull the U.S. out of the current recession, and much more. Spend a few minutes and find out how freelancers and other entrepreneurs will save the day and how you can be a part of it.

Find out more about Strong Academy on Twitter, on Facebook, or on the Strong Academy site.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here you go!

Make Marketing Easier With A Swipe File

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

When it comes to marketing, as in most things, it’s probably been done before. Luckily for us, it’s probably also been highly tested, and what doesn’t work is quite well known. Sometimes it’s better to not be first.

But rather than wade through hundreds of blogs posts each day, scouring every nook and cranny for new tactics and strategies, try figuring out the formulas that the heavies are using. Once you have those, you can spend more time putting your knowledge into action.

And that’s where the swipe file comes in.

What Is A Swipe File?

A swipe file is essentially a spreadsheet with a few key bits of information. You keep this file handy, and open, whenever you are reading blogs, books, magazines, or wherever you go for information. You can use Microsoft Excel, Numbers on the Mac, or a simple Google Doc spreadsheet.

Depending on the type of content you’re taking in, the column headers can vary. For instance, in my swipe file (which I’ll be giving you at the bottom of this blog post), I have a single tab I named Headlines. In this sheet, I have 3 columns:

Original Headline
Formula (Optional)
URL (Optional)

If I wanted to go more in-depth, you could create a sheet with a more specific title like “Articles & Blog Posts” and have these columns:

Category
Title
URL

The columns in your swipe file can really be anything, but it’s most effective when they are descriptive and can take you back to the original content.

What A Swipe File Is Used For

A swipe file is used as a reference. The one that you can download at the bottom of this post is the one I use to capture headlines from blog posts.

If content is a core part of your marketing strategy, then keeping a swipe file full of headlines at the ready is highly useful.

Let’s say you have all of your RSS feeds in Google Reader. If you tend to scan the headlines and click only on the ones that appear interesting, copy and paste that into your swipe file. If you are using the first tab in the provided spreadsheet, then you’ll have a column for the formula the post author was using. Here’s an example:

Original Headline – “The Big Secret To Success? Run With What You Have”
Formula – “The Big Secret To _________? ______________

So the next time you’re looking for an awesome and catchy headline for your post, you can whip out this reference file, scan the headlines and formulas, and use the one that works the best for what you’re writing about. Easy peasy.

Over time this file will get pretty large and you’ll have an excellent reference for yourself, making your marketing efforts much easier.

Get Your Swipe File Here

Here’s a file to get you started:

Are You Using A Swipe File?

If so, what does yours look like and what are you using it for?

Combining Powers For PR Firm Success – with Holly Jordano

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Holly Jordano left her full-time PR position with a well-known plastic surgeon in Miami to start Angel Fish Connections, a boutique PR and marketing firm. Over the past two years, Holly has built an extremely thriving business with clients ranging from plastic surgeons to entertainers to non-profits. And though her business was rocketing forward, Holly chose to team up with a brand management firm to be able to take on different and more clients.

After watching this interview with Holly, check out her firm – Angel Fish Connections – and give her a shout on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here you go!

Why I Work With A Life Coach

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

I’ve been working with Michelle Ward, the When I Grow Up Coach, for 4 months now. When she asked me after our two month mark if I was getting out of it what I wanted, I had a resounding yes. Check out my interview with Michelle.

I had been very skeptical of hiring any type of coach to help me out. But the truth of the matter is that I can crawl so deep into my own head that I need a jack hammer to get out of it. Ever been there? How many times this week?

And you want to talk about accountability? What accountability. Sure if I’m not bringing home the bacon my wife is going to kick my ass – and with good reason – but aside from that I’m accountable for my actions really only to myself, one of the benefits of being self-employed. So except for your paying clients, who do you answer to?

So we have two issues. First, we can get so focused on what we’re doing and how we’re doing it that it becomes really hard to objectively look at what we’re doing. Second, if we can do pretty much whatever we want whenever we want, held accountable only to ourselves, where is the check and balance? And a third issue that comes up here too is the need for outside opinion. Yes, it’s good to have that. We can’t be right all the time can we? Seriously, be honest with yourself.

A life coach isn’t a cheerleader, nor are they there to tell you what to do. Rather, a life coach asks the right questions to help you uncover what’s buried so you can get on track and start kicking ass.

If you find yourself stuck in a rut with a continuous flow of questions and no answers in sight, it might be time to look into working with a life coach. Personally I like Michelle and can recommend her first hand but find someone that works for you. Many offer 15-30 minute consultations where you can see if they really click with you.

Become A Media Powerhouse Tomorrow At WordCamp MSP

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

To complete in the United States, and against a growing global workforce, a freelancer has to take all out massive action, and reach their customers everywhere they live. You can do this by turning your freelance business into a media powerhouse.

Yesterday I held two Freelance Bootcamp sessions at the excellent co-working space CoCo MSP in St. Paul, Minnesota. After answering some fundamental questions all freelancers must keep in mind, especially when starting out, we dug into some serious ninja tactics, something my friend Scott Scanlon of You Brand Inc. and I call all out massive action. I firmly believe that in order to get ahead today, a freelancer has to take all out massive action, and turn themselves into a media powerhouse, in order to grow fast and be competitive. It’s a strategy that is really working for me here at Life Of The Freelancer.

So what is all out massive action all about and how does it relate to being a media powerhouse?

I’m glad you asked.

All out massive action is just as it sounds – putting down the video games and the movies, and working your face off as Gary Vaynerchuk says to do.

Turning your business into a media powerhouse is much like it sounds as well – creating content in all formats, and then spreading it as far and as wide as you can.

Here’s a slide from my talk tomorrow that gives a bit more insight into it.

Media Powerhouse - Content Types And Distribution

I’ll be outlining the strategy for this at my talk tomorrow at WordCamp MSP, and I hope to see you there.

But if you don’t make it, not to worry. Stay tuned here at Life Of The Freelancer for much more of this. I’m currently in the process of creating a number of packages to help you do just this for your business.

Helping Kids Live Through Trauma – with Paul Gilbertson

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

When children go through traumatic experiences, they can be scarred for life. Typically the first on the scene is a police officer. It is this first interaction with an officer that can determine the future of the child. This is where REACH A Child comes in.

Paul Gilbertson is a children’s book author who has a simple mission – to put smiles on the faces of children in crisis across America through the power of books. To make his mission a reality, he founded R.E.A.C.H a Child, a non-profit that that helps first responders engage the children in crisis in a positive way, so that the trauma doesn’t destroy their lives.

This is a powerful story that I wanted to share with you. Please listen to the interview, visit the REACH a Child site, and help if you can.

Are You Getting Value From Life Of The Freelancer?

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:00:00 +0000

I understand. You like to read the posts, or watch the interviews, or listen to the podcast in iTunes. I understand too that you might be a bit shy to leave a comment, or perhaps feel that you have nothing else to add to the conversation. Though I doubt that – I’m sure you have a lot to add and a lot to say.

Well, I need to know.

Are you getting value out of the articles and interviews we’re putting here on Life Of The Freelancer?

Please let me know in the comments, and if there’s anything else I can add to make this site more helpful, please let me know that too.

Internet Marketing Done Right – with Sean Malarkey

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Sean Malarkey is one of the good guys when it comes to Internet marketing. He has entrepreneurism in his blood, and learned a lot about marketing during a very successful real estate investment business. After getting out of real estate a few years ago, he started to help others build businesses using online tools like social media.

Learn more about Sean on his blog – SeanMalarkey.com – and connect with him on Twitter and Facebook.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Small Biz Web Consulting – with Glen McNiel

Entrepreneurship Is Not About Failure

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:00:00 +0000

When it comes to entrepreneurship, you always hear people talking about failure – fail fast, fail often, fail fail fail.

This is the wrong message.

I’ve failed in the past, and it sucked pretty bad. What I would like NOT to do is fail. But don’t get me wrong, failure happens. But that’s not what entrepreneurship is all about, and I’m sure that you didn’t start working for yourself to fail. You started your own business so that you could own your success, and learn your own lessons without being humiliated for it.

Wally is wrong about what entrepreneurship is all about

It’s About Having Goals

How many times have your mother, father, teachers, bosses, and everyone else in your life told you to have goals? Sick of it aren’t you?

Well guess what, you have to have goals. And in addition to goals, you need metrics.

Success is relative. What I think it success for me may be radically different than what you feel is success. And that’s totally fine – we don’t need to have the same definition, nor do we need to borrow someone else’s, like say society as a whole. How has the “traditional path to success” of going to school then working at a single job until retirement worked out? Yeah, not so much.

But you have to have a goal.

Your goal may be to have enough money and clients within a year to quit your job. Your goal may be to double your business over the next six months. Your goal may be to write that book you’ve always wanted to.

Whatever your goal is, it needs to be measurable, with some definable outcome at the end.

So it may be a dollar figure or number of clients; it may be a set dollar figure; it may be a completed book.

Coming Back To The Failure Thing

You only fail if you don’t try. If you set a goal and then do nothing about it, you’ve failed. If on the other hand you set a goal, you put a measurement in place, and then at the end of that time period you have not completed the goal, you haven’t failed, in fact you’ve succeeded in getting much further than many others. And therefore you are on the winning path.

So what do you think about the whole fail fast and fail often thing? Did you start a business to fail or to kick ass? Please let me know in the comments below.

FREE Training – Work Less By Hiring A Virtual Assistant

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 12:00:00 +0000

How do you get more done without doing more work?

Hire a virtual assistant.

I hired my virtual assistant Mae more than 6 months ago, and since then, I’ve been able to better focus on doing more of the work that helps me to bring in more money – creating products, working with more clients, producing more videos and posts to help you build a business, and more. Without Mae, it would be difficult for me to keep up with everything in my world of entrepreneurship, and to help get my content out as far as it can go.

But there are a TON of things that a virtual assistant can do for you, thinks like:

All of the business-ey stuff that you don’t like doing
All of the marketing stuff that will keep a steady flow of future customers coming in
All of the financial stuff you need to track to keep Uncle Sam from beating down your door

I’ll be covering that and much more in a FREE 60-90 minute webinar on November 10th at 8 PM EDT.

Space is limited to sign up today!

Weighing The Pros And Cons of Freelancing – with Atom Groom

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 12:00:00 +0000

Atom Groom, a guy with one of the coolest names I’ve ever heard, is a Freelance Web and Graphic Designer from Chicago. Atom has taken his background in graphic design, and added web design and development with a dash of SEO to create a freelance career where he picks and chooses the clients he works with, clients like Pepsi and Kodak.

In this interview Atom discusses why it took him years to fully transition into self-employment, how he chooses which clients to work with, and how he gets big projects like his recently announced redevelopment and relaunch of the Faith Church site.

Learn more about Atom at his site – AtomGroom.com – and connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Is Your Marketing Strategy A Robo Call?

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 16:00:00 +0000

Marketing today is about having a conversation with your future customers. That means two-way communication, rather than the mindless blanketing of the earth with messages that fall on deaf ears – the marketing that some people still believe is effective.

If the ceaseless robo calls that have permeated the 2010 mid-term elections here in the U.S. have taught us anything, it’s that this mindless blanketing is not only ineffective, but it has the negative effect of sending people to the competition.

In the podcast today I do a little rant about this, and discuss how to show your future customers that you are in fact, human.

Securely Transitioning Into Freelancing – with Alexandra Franzen

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:30:00 +0000

I met Alexandra Franzen at her “Suck It Recession” workshop at CoCo MSP and was inspired to create this site, Life Of The Freelancer. In this interview, Alexandra shares her story of how she effectively and securely transitioned into freelancing, and is busier than all get out today as a writer, editor, and organization freak.

You can meet Alexandra live tomorrow on the women entrepreneur webinar. Sign up for free today.

For more information about Alexandra, please visit her site AlexandraFranzen.com, or connect with her on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Business To Business PR – with Christine Pietryla

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Christine Pietryla, the founder and owner of Pietryla Enterprises, is a business-to-business PR consultant, which means she helps companies find her clients, which are other companies.

The lessons of starting a freelance PR business that she shares can be applied to anyone looking to get into public relations. If you’re in the B2B space, pay particular attention as it’s a fine art.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Also, you can hear Christine speak live at the upcoming Women Entrepreneurs For Women Entrepreneurs webinar. Register FREE today.

Prefer to read the entire thing? Here’s the full transcript.

Transcript

Robert: Hey there. This is Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer, and in this interview I am speaking with Christine Pietryla of Pietryla Enterprises. And Christine is a business-to-business PR consultant, which means that she is working with companies to get in front of other companies with their products and services. So very different than what a lot of us are exposed to where companies out there, big names– Apple, Microsoft, etc., you know, are trying to connect with us as consumers.

So this is some serious business-to-business stuff, which I think can be even more tricky, because business buyers are not out there necessarily watching TV and looking for these products on TV.

So the way that this PR works that Christine does is, again, very different. But I think a lot of the techniques that she talks about using, like developing third-party credibility, absolutely will work for your business whether you’re doing business-to-business or business-to-consumer.

And, again, just to make the differentiation with these two types of PR, Christine, the market that she’s going for, the people that she is trying to reach for her customers are people that are spending large amounts of money. So, you know, hundreds of thousands up, and they have to budget for it.

So, what she does a lot of is helping people get into the trade press, get newspapers and all of this other stuff; basically, getting companies to talk about other companies. So it’s something that I believe is very challenging to do, but Christine is making it happen.

So check out this interview with Christine. You can also see her speaking at the Women Entrepreneur for Women Entrepreneur webinar, the first one that we’re holding on November 3^rd. You can still sign up for that for free. It’s full, but there is a chance that people will say, “Hey, I’m not gonna go.” So absolutely sign up for that. And I will see you on the other side of the interview. Thanks.

Hey everybody, this is Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer, and I am speaking today with Christine Pietryla. Christine, how’s it going?

Christine: Hi, I’m doing well. Thanks.

Robert: So let’s get right into it. Let us, first off, know what is it that you do?

Christine: Well, I’m a business-to-business PR consultant, and that’s kind of opposed to a consumer or a business-to-consumer consultant. And that would be somebody that’s concerned about, I always like to say, anything that’s in a Target store. You know, if you find it in a store, it’s consumer, and that’s the stuff I don’t work with. I’m working with professional services firms, commodities, anything …all the non-sexy stuff, as I also tell people. [laughs] The stuff that’s kind of boring– plastics, things of that nature.

Robert: Gotcha. And so, now, when you say business-to-business, then you’re helping, basically, other businesses get known by other businesses?

Christine: Yes, yes, that’s exactly right.

Robert: OK. So can you kind of elaborate a bit on what exactly that entails, then? Like, what kind of specific types of things, then, do you get into?

Christine: Well, that’s a great question, because it is really different. Really, in a business-to-business side of things we’re trying to develop third-party credibility, because these are buyers that aren’t, you know, watching TV on Saturday morning and go, “Oh, I gotta get that next time I go to the store.” You know, they’re usually buyers that are spending quite a bit of money and fitting it into their budget and need to fulfill specific goals.

So, you know, the third-party credibility really comes into play, because, you know, while I do help people organize their websites and all of their marketing materials so that they say the right things, a very important part of that, and the part that I come in at, is getting into the trade press, getting into newspapers, getting other people to talk about all the positive things that you need other people to know about your product or your service. It can be very crucial. Without it, marketing, advertising in a B2B space, in my opinion, just isn’t enough.

Robert: Gotcha. And can you give kind of an example? When you said third-party credibility, now, if you and I are both a business, then would, say, my wife, as a consumer, be that third party, or my wife is yet another business that’s done business with me be that third party?

Christine: Yes, it would be another company that would be buying the product or service that I’m representing, I guess in this case. So, you know, I’d probably create a few testimonials. Like, let’s just say I have a company, ABC Company, that creates widgets. So I go out and find a bunch of testimonials, go to the trade press, and make sure that the trade press knows that these folks have had a good experience with ABC Company’s widgets. And they write about it, take pictures of it.

And then instead of ABC Company saying, “This is a good product. You should buy it from us,” now it’s Modern Materials Handling magazine saying, “This is a great product. We just featured it on our cover.”

Robert: Hmm. Gotcha. And so a lot of the stuff, too, that I see with marketing, and since I have you, I’m going to pick your brain a little bit here, you know, they always separate B2B, business-to-business, and B2C, or business-to-consumer, as separate. But it seems like some of the same types of things may apply.

So if I, as a business, want to get known by you, then having, say, the credibility of other companies that have worked with me, them saying, “Hey, you know, I worked with Rob’s business, fantastic, etc.” , almost the same kind of thing as within the consumer’s space. However, maybe, I don’t know, maybe not on the same scale. Although, even as I start saying this I realized, yeah, it’s a lot different, because it’s like Bob talks to Joe about, “Oh, hey, go buy an iPhone.” That’s a lot different than businesses saying that kind of amongst each other. Or, I mean, is that really that different?

Christine: Well, the application is different, yes. The sentiment is the same. iPhone is a great example. You know, you might buy one because you see four people on the bus in the morning wearing one. And all of a sudden, you’re now thinking about an iPhone, where, you know, 10 minutes earlier it didn’t even occur to you to even start thinking about an iPhone.

So, you know, in that sense, they do want third-party credibility. They want people walking around with it. They want to make sure that it’s differentiated, you know. iPhone, that’s why I said it’s a great example. It’s when you see those white headphones, you know exactly what somebody is looking at or, you know, paying attention to on the bus.

So, you know, that sentiment is the same in that it’s differentiating itself. It’s making you feel attached to the product, and you’re attached because of other people’s opinions, not because Apple said, “Hey, we have this great MP3 player. You should buy it.”

And also, I think, again, you know, an iPhone, although it is not a cheap piece of equipment, you know, you can certainly get cheaper MP3 players or more cost-effective. It is something you can buy relatively quickly. You make a decision, you decide where you’re gonna get it. You know, there are some variables in the price, but we’re talking, you know, at maximum, a couple hundred dollars for all the bells and whistles.

So I think people make that decision a lot quicker where they may see one or two people, see a few ads, say, “Man, that’s really cool. I’m gonna go out and get one of those. And the risk is $200. Whereas, if you are a distribution company and you’re buying a fleet of lift trucks, that’s not something you’re sitting on the bus going, “Man, I’m gonna go buy a fleet of lift trucks today after work.” You know?

Robert: Gotcha.

Christine: You know, you’re gonna go into your boss with a budget. The budget’s gonna be very large. You’re gonna have to get as much as you can out of that budget. You’re gonna have to work with a lot of different variables. And ultimately, you’re gonna want to walk in prepared into that meeting.

So that is part of it, too. I always tell people in meetings, you know, just think about what [xx 8:44] costs. You know, like, what can we put in front of them that they would put in a folder or put in a presentation to show their procurement manager or their boss? And that’s really a hugely different thing.

I mean, ultimately, you want that boss across the table to think the very same thing you are on the bus when you’re deciding to buy an iPad, or an iPhone, or an iPod or whatever. But it takes a lot longer to get there because you’re talking hundreds of thousands of dollars, usually.

Robert: Gotcha. So really, I mean the whole positioning is very different too. And like you said, I mean if I’m walking and I decide, “Hey, you know, I got this version of the iPhone, I want the new one,” that’s a pretty rapid decision. But if a business is saying, OK, I’m gonna, as you said, buy something tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, the buying cycle, that even takes longer.

Christine: Oh, yes.

Robert: So you have to kind of engage these folks over a longer period, and I imagine try and keep your business or the business you’re working with in front of them throughout that whole time so that, ultimately, they choose that company, like your company to buy from.

Christine: Absolutely. And it is…you made another good point…it is for a long time. You know, a lot of people will come to me and say, “Well, if we do this for a month or two, you know, we’ll see how it works.” And I always kind of say, “Well, I’ll tell you right now, it’s not going to work.” You know, this is an ongoing…this is something you have to commit to for longer than six weeks, two months. I mean it’s not a fly-by-night marketing opportunity, marketing PR.

A lot of people lump all that in together, you know. Especially in the B2B space, it’s just communications. But really, when you’re talking about that level, you’re talking six months to a year before you even really start…because again, we’re trying to influence credibility. We’re not trying to reemphasize a brand name, or what a logo looks like, or get impressions in front of people. We’re trying to change the perception in the industry.

So, you know, I would consider something when, as small as, by the client that was really tiny, no one ever heard of before, and then all of a sudden we were getting mentioned in the same kind of articles as bigger competitors, I would consider that a huge win, and that’s a lot different than a consumer item.

So fundamentally, you are absolutely right. The sentiment and the essence of what you’re trying to achieve are the same, but the tactics that we go about using to do it are fundamentally way different.

Robert: Gotcha. Yeah, and I was just remembering when I first started my web development business how I thought, “Oh, yeah! It’s so obvious. You know, people, people want this. They need some custom app built for them. We do this, blah, blah, blah, and it’ll be so quick.”

And then it would take, at best, weeks, and then, at worst, months and months and months. Like I, I had a customer follow us on Twitter and our blog for well over a year before actually becoming a customer. So these things just take a longer amount of time, especially in the B2B space, which can surprise a lot of folks that are, I think, starting out having their own businesses.

So now, how did you get into PR and then B2B kind of PR specifically?

Christine: Well, I’ve always been in business-to-business PR. My first year out of college was at an agency, and I think that was kind of happenstance that they were a business-to-business agency. At that point, you know, you’re just graduating from college. You want to get whatever job you can get. [laughs]

But it really connected with me because I had a business background as well, and, largely, you’re not solving a communications problem as much as you are a business problem. You know, we need to break into this market share. We need to tell the buyers in this industry, you know, the functionality of this product that we offer.

So, you know, I found it compelling that we were talking more about business issues than about, you know, just simple buying behaviors and things like that. So I just took to it, and that’s really kind of how that began.

I worked at an agency for a number of years and then became a freelancer, kind of by happenstance. I know you probably hear it a lot, but people….I wasn’t dreaming about being a freelancer. Now I have nightmares about going back and having a real job.

[laughter]

But at the time I wasn’t dreaming about it. It just sort of happened. You know, I came at a crossroads where I had a small paying freelance gig, and I was offered a job like what Russell Brand would call a jobby-job, you know, a real one, and I had to make the choice. And it came down, for me, to, “What do I want to do every day?” And so I chose the freelance job and just said I’ll just have to go out and get some more clients. And seven years later I’m still doing that and still OK.

Robert: So just to make sure I understand that then, you were doing freelance, and then you had the opportunity to get the full-time job, or you had the full-time job, was doing freelance and then could kinda go either way?

Christine: I had a full-time job.

Robert: OK.

Christine: And then got laid off, as many people did, in the early 2000’s in public relations and marketing, and was offered a full-time gig, but it was as a project manager. Which, you know, nothing against project management, but it’s not public relations. It’s not marketing.

So I did have, on the side, to try and support myself while I was out of work a freelance gig. I mean it was small, and it wasn’t anything monumental at that point, but, you know, it did really crystallize for me that, “Oh, wait a second. If I get two or three more of these, then I don’t have to have a real job. You know, I don’t have to go back to that mentality. “

So yeah. So then after I had that epiphany, it was all, the rest of it was easy from there, really.

Robert: Gotcha. So with that first freelance gig then, how did you get that? So you had been laid off, then what happened?

Christine: It’s funny. I put my…well, I had my resume on job boards and things like that. I mean I think I was all of 24, 25 when this was happening, so I was still a kid, basically. [laughs] And I had my resume out there, and somebody called and said, “Hey, I’m the marketing manager for a company.” It was a software company. “I need somebody to just help us with local media relations and to talk to some of our trades. You know, I just don’t have the bandwidth to do that on my own. Do you want to do it for us? You know, it’s like two or three hours a week, and this is how much we’ll pay you.”

And I thought, “Well, sure.” And then at least, at that time, when I took that gig I was thinking my resume will stay current. You know, so when I go into new job interviews I’ll be able to say I’m still doing public relations. But then, yeah, the epiphany. Once I got the first check, I think, was the first time I thought, “Wait a second. Two or three more of these a month and I’m golden. You know, I don’t need to tie myself down to another office again and live by somebody else’s rules. You know, I can live by my own.”

And moreover, work for people that I really respect. I think that was part of the epiphany for me. Not that I don’t like agencies or have something against agencies, but I just… it was never a good fit for me, and I really felt at home freelancing. So I guess there’s no other better way to put it than that. You know, things click, and that was one of those things that just clicked at that point.

Robert: Right on. Yeah, I spoke with someone earlier that said…and how did she put it? I think she said an entrepreneur is born, not made.

Christine: Yes.

Robert: So, it’s like you either…you are this way or you’re not so much. OK, so you had that first initial gig. Now, how did you start getting customers after that one?

Christine: Well, then I went into networking mode. You know, I had always been kind of good at that. Well, one of the things…I try to tell…I have two brothers, and they have “regular jobs.” I try to tell them the same thing, that, you know, you can still have a regular job, but be a networked person. You know, anything that you bring as a benefit to your job, whether you’re a freelancer or a 9 to 5er, is gonna help. It’s gonna help you. It’s gonna help your company.

So, you know, I think, especially then in the late ‘90s, early 2000’s, networking wasn’t as big of a…wasn’t as pervasive as it is now. I think now we have so many ways to do it online it just comes kind of second nature to people. Like, “Well, I always talk to these people on Facebook, so why wouldn’t I also go out to lunch with them if I needed to talk to them about something?”

I think back then it was a real effort. So, I joined a few social clubs, professional social clubs. I’m located in Chicago, so one of them was The Metropolitan Club in the Sears Tower, and just started telling people my story, basically. I came up with a company name. Actually, my dad came up with the company name. And then, you know, wrote a business plan and just started working it.

And it really is networking. And frankly, you know, over the last seven or eight years it’s been mostly word of mouth and networking. I do marketing of course. You know, I’m “physician, heal thyself”, you know.? So I do it for myself. I do PR for myself. But at the same time, I think people, clients that really buy into my model have that same epiphany.

You know, we sit down at lunch, we talk, and then all of a sudden you can almost see it on their face where it’s like ,”Whoa! Actually, she’s right. I’m gonna pay her a lot less. I’m not gonna have to pay employees fees and benefits and all of this. She’s accountable for everything that she does, you know, one point of contact. She’s a management level employee, which I couldn’t get for less than what we would be paying her. You know, that kind of service of [xx 19:40].” I think there is, for me, it’s just worked out best networking-wise and just making sure that, you know, I hang out with the right people, I guess, for lack of a better way of putting it. [laughs]

Robert: Right on. And so, now, do you still do a lot of in-person networking now to keep business coming in?

Christine: Yes, yes. And, you know, the economy, especially over the last year, has made it really rough. A lot of our clients have trimmed their budgets. You know, I mean it’s the same across the board, I think, for everybody. So it has been a renewed interest of mine.

You know, when the sun is shining, it’s difficult to think, “This is when I need to be making hay.” And fortunately, we did do that when the sun was shining, so we were able to kind of weather the last year or two without too much of a struggle.

But, yes, it’s ongoing. And I’ve kind of picked it back up again. I have to admit that. There was a time where I thought, “Well, you don’t need to be going to lunches two or three times a week anymore. You know, I can chill out a little bit.” And learned a valuable lesson, and that is it’s part of your job as a freelancer. It has to be part of your job, no matter what you do, in my opinion so.

Robert: Right on. And so when you said word-of-mouth, you mentioned you get business by word-of-mouth. Now, I hear a lot of people say that. And I always ask, what do you mean by word-of-mouth?

Christine: Well first, it is the networking. You know, people… I’m on boards, not-for-profit boards, volunteer time. I volunteer for professional organizations here in Chicago and go to their luncheons and stuff. So I know…you have a network of people. I’m sure everybody, to some degree, has that group of professional people that they always see and hang out with and spend time with.

I make sure that they know what I do and how to tell somebody else what I do. So that’s very important. You know, because they’re your stewards. They’re the ones out there when you’re not saying I know somebody who can help you with that. You know, and if they don’t know what kind of problems you solve, they can’t help you. So that’s the first part, making sure that everybody knows exactly what I do, what kind of problems I solve.

And then secondarily to that, I ask my clients to do it as well, once in awhile when it makes sense to, and there are always times when it does. You know, maybe when you go out for a drink after a trade show or something. “Hey, do you know of anyone else able to utilize my services in the way that we have? You know, we had some great success this year. It would be really great, and if you do happen to find somebody that is, I might be able to help you out on our service fees a little bit.”

So I try to make a reciprocal for my clients to a degree where they think about it when they are talking to somebody. But I think it’s preparing everybody, really, for what to say, how to say it, and who to say it to.

Robert: Right on. [laughs] A little bit of coaching never hurts, huh?

Christine: Yeah!

Robert: So now, with PR, because it is, as we discussed, kind of a very, kind of long-term thing, it’s not just a, “Hey, let’s do this for a week and see what happens, right? It’s a longer term engagement. In terms of billing, do you do things like on a project basis? Is there an hourly, some kind of retainer? I mean what’s kind of that model that you work off of?

Christine: I do both. I do project work, and then I do retainer work. Honestly, I think from a public relations standpoint, like pure public relations, a retainer is easier, because you are talking about months and months worth of work, laying the groundwork for things. A lot of it is preparing for things that may or may not happen with the media or with industry analysts.

So usually what I do is bottom-line it. I think it’s gonna take a baseline of X amount of hours every month, and then I put the retainer at the lowest common denominator and then go from there. You know, if it takes more than that, then the contract says what happens in that case.

Those clients I have, I could say probably 60% of my business are those kinds of clients. The rest of them are project clients where we have a new product, what should we do, and we’re going to launch it over the next six to nine months. And then that’s where marketing, a lot of times, will come into it as well, especially for a smaller firm who might not have a marketing manager, who might just have a sales manager.

So I’ll come in, work with them, get everything I need, and then deploy maybe a special website, an email blast to some…you know, any of the tools that we might use, a social media campaign to launch that information over six to nine months.

So that’s usually a project client. I don’t know if any other freelancers would call that a project, you know. [laughs] So it’s still a significant amount of time. But for us, that’s what we would define as a project. Because, ultimately, PR-wise, you want to have clients for 10 years, you know. [laughs] So that’s a long-term retainer client to me. Six months would be considered just a project client.

Robert: Gotcha. And so now you said “we” a little bit ago. So now, is it just you yourself purely doing all the work? Do you work with other kind of independent folks? Or is someone behind the scenes there somewhere, you know, helping you out? Or what’s up with that?

Christine: I do…I work with independent people to do a variety of different things. And at first, what I was doing was calling other consultants and then I would interview them for the job. And I started to realize that that was really time-consuming. And also, the clients didn’t really like that because it felt like we weren’t prepared at the beginning of an engagement.

So what I have done now is I have a stable of kind of go-to people, and I have two tiers. There’s the first tier, and then there’s maybe three people in this group where, you know, if I get a website design project, it definitely goes to Derek. Or if I get a copywriting assignment that I can’t handle myself, then it definitely goes to Nicole. You know, those are things, that first tier.

And then I have…and those people are contracted. We have confidentiality agreements. So if you called me right now today and asked me for my help, I could get one of them on the phone with us and start talking about this without feeling uncomfortable about it.

Robert: Gotcha.

Christine: And then there’s the second tier where those are the people that sometimes go in and out, and they’re the grey-area consultants, where they might help with copywriting or graphic design or something that isn’t strategically involved in the client contact part of the plan. And I try to contract those…

Just as a side note, one of the obstacles that I’ve had as a freelancer, really, is making sure that the people you’re working with, if you are bringing people in, are trustworthy, contracted properly, trustworthy. [laughs] It bears repeating.

Robert: Very important.

Christine: Yeah, so for me, yeah, I say “we” because there is a group of people that helps me succeed in my projects. But largely, it’s important to me that I stay involved as the client contact. So I don’t have any client contact that doesn’t go through me.

Robert: Gotcha. And so project management, a big thing now, it sounds like part of your job. And going from a full-time job to working for yourself always brings on the challenge of, “Oh, crap. Now I gotta run a business and do all these other things.” So how have you gone about kind of educating yourself on business, you know, as you went?

Christine: Well, that’s a very good question, because it’s been a challenge. And frankly, if I’m being candid, it’s an ongoing challenge for me, because, you know, having a business background, at first I thought how hard could this be? I mean QuickBooks seems pretty easy and billing seems easy, money comes in, money goes out. And yeah, you quickly find out that it’s not that simple, especially when there are other people involved.

So I haven’t really done any classes or anything like that. A lot of mine has just been trial, trial by error, you know, or trial by fire, trial and error. But the other thing I’ve done is ask people, not been afraid to bring people in and ask them. “I messed up my QuickBooks file. I have no idea what I did wrong, but it’s not working properly. Do you think that you could come in and not only fix it, but help me figure out how I can do this better in the future?”

And admitting to myself that I’m a PR person and I know the business side of public relations, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I know how to be a bookkeeper. And I can’t beat myself up over that. So I guess the short answer is ask for help and not be afraid of that. [laughs]

Robert: Right on.

Christine: But yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know about classes. I wish I could recommend something specific. I think that there are definitely education programs out there that would help with something very …you know, I mentioned QuickBooks. I know you can go to the library and take QuickBooks classes.

But I think, for me, the bigger challenge wasn’t the software as much as it was budgeting and taxes, knowing how to do all that, knowing what software programs or services that you could use or you shouldn’t use.

You know, I think one of the big mistakes I made early on was trying to replicate a bigger agency atmosphere. You know, like, “I must take credit cards or I must do this.” You know, “I must have an office. I must have state-of-the-art equipment.” And realizing later that it might not have been necessary to have gone that far and achieved the same things I needed.

So I think it’s an ongoing learning experience. But what I have learned, I have learned from other people and trusted advisors, and programs like yours, and books and things like that.

Robert: Awesome. Yeah, I can totally relate to that, trying to go, like, really big in the very beginning. I literally just threw out, God, it must have been 10 boxes of folders that I had printed up when I first started my company, like, 10 years ago. I mean these folders never went anywhere. And I’m like, “What the…? what am I doing?” You know, what a waste of money!

Because I thought, yeah, “Well, it’s what a big company does, so I gotta act like that.” So I think that’s a great piece of advice there, right? It’s like act your size. [laughs]

Christine: Exactly. Well, and I think especially now… When I started, technology was obviously out there. You know, you could…the internet was alive and kicking, you know. There wasn’t anything that isn’t available now, but I think there wasn’t as much of an understanding of how it could play into a business, and they definitely didn’t have a lot of competition, especially in the software realm.

So, for instance now, I use Gmail to manage all of my email communications, because I have like eight different email addresses [xx 32:04]. And before, I was using Outlook, which everybody will probably sympathize, crashed all the time, was a pain in the neck to try and get all the emails together and, you know, sort through. You think it’s gonna be this great thing, go out and spend $500, $600 on this huge office system or software system, and it turns out, for a one-person shop, there are better ways to get that kind of stuff done.

So if I could go back seven years from now or in the past and tell my old self what to do, I would say, “If you do not have to spend the money, then don’t do it. If it is not imperative to keep your doors open, then don’t do it.” Find a cheap way or a free way to do it first, and then move up when it make sense to do that.

So, you know, I’d spend your money on networking stuff. You know, going to trade shows, taking prospective clients out to lunch. You know, for the $500 you would spend to get a brand new office, Microsoft office put on your laptop, that’s four or five different really nice lunches with a group of people that could bring in business.

So I know it sounds preachy, but if I could school my younger self, that’s one of the very first things that I would say, is don’t make that mistake.

Robert: Yeah. I’ll give a plus one on that.

[laughter]

Yeah, a big plus one on that one. So, Christine, I mean this is… it’s been great talking with you, great advice. And that was just great advice there. And I was thinking, man, I always end with a question, you know, what’s the one thing that you want to make sure you get across? And I don’t know if you can just top that one that you just said, but, let’s try. All right?

So if there’s one additional piece of advice on top of everything you’ve already said today that you want to make sure gets across to someone watching this or someone listening to this that’s out there that’s just getting started in the self-employment realm, in the freelance realm, what else would you want to make sure absolutely gets across to these folks?

Christine: I actually do have a really good piece of advice, and I will attribute it to my father who has said it to me for my whole entire adult life. And that is, if you do what you like every day, then money is just secondary to that, money will follow that. And then you will be happy doing what you want, and you’ll be successful, or you will have a platform for success.

So, I told you the story about when I started. I had the choice between a full-time job and a small freelance job. I always look back to that when I give somebody this advice and say, “You know, I made the right decision because I wasn’t focused on money. I was focused on happiness — What is going to make me happy moving forward?”

And so there are rough times, but I’m still happy and doing stuff that I like during those rough times. And it’s easier to put it in perspective and to move forward then it is if I was, you know, just out there looking for the next big check or a next big break. So I think it’s just fundamentally what your business plan should be: What do I want to do every day? And then work it from there.

Robert: Awesome.

Christine: So that’s my advice for everybody that would be freelancing. That and your main job is to move forward. You know, not lament anything. We’re a little bit like actors or somebody who is going on auditions all the time. You gotta kind of get used to a certain amount of struggle and rejection. And, you know, just like I’m sure they would tell you, you just have to keep moving forward.

Robert: Awesome. So, Christine, where can people find you online?

Christine: Well, they can find me, gosh, everywhere. You know, I’m on Facebook, I’m on Twitter, and my website is my last name which is PietrylaEnterprises.com.

Robert: Fantastic. Well, Christine, it’s been excellent talking with you. Thanks for all of the advice and bringing your experience out for us to know about. I appreciate it.

Christine: Thank you so much.

Robert: Have a good one.

Christine: You too.

Robert: Bye-bye.

Christine: Bye.

Robert: Hey, it’s Robert Dempsey again, Life of the Freelancer. Thanks for taking the time to listen to the interview with Christine. You can find Christine online at PietrylaEnterprises.com. I’ll link up to that in the post.

And I think some of the most valuable things that Christine did say on there, at least in terms of PR, one of the big things that I think is that it takes time to do these things, to build up an actual public relations in terms of how you relate to the public. It takes time.

I mean that totally goes into having a business. It takes time to build a business and do marketing efforts and all of this kind of thing. It absolutely takes time. And one of the things, too, that she talked about with how she got into freelancing was, you know, she had built up some freelancing clients, and then when she decided, “OK, well should I take a job or should I go freelance?”, she looked at what she really wanted to be doing everyday and decided that freelancing was the best route for her based on what it is what she really wanted to do and what she wanted to get out of life.

So a fantastic story. And now, again, you can hear Christine speak live at The Women Entrepreneur for Women Entrepreneur webinar. You can just go to lifeofthefreelancer.com/we4we. So we4we, and you can sign up for free for that.

And also, if you have any questions about being a freelancer or becoming a freelancer, anything about the business of freelancing, whether you have a job and you’re thinking about becoming a freelancer, working for yourself, or you’ve already taken the plunge into self-employment and you’re looking for, you know, “OK, well crap. Now I gotta run a business. How do I do that?”

Or, even if you’re inside of a business, and business nowadays, or at least employment nowadays, pretty much everybody is a freelancer. And so if you have any questions on that, I can help you out with that as well.

Let me know. You can reach me on email, Robert@lifeofthefreelancer.com. You can reach me on Twitter @lifeofthefree, and also on Facebook, Life of the Freelancer at Facebook.com/lifeofthefreelancer. I’m active on all those. Just get in touch with me and let me know how I can help you to build your business and do what it is you love to do.

So, I’m Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer, and I’ll see you next time. Thanks.

Focus on Building A Freelance Business

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:00:00 +0000

Many people enter the world of self-employment hoping to do more of what they love. What they find, is that they are now in business, and have to rapidly learn things like marketing, sales, and every other step in The Business Funnel™. If you’re like most people, you were never taught how to run a business.

If you want to truly turn your passion into something that can support you and a family, the thinking and acting like a business person is job number one.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Building A Successful Career Coaching Practice – with Michelle Ward

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Michelle Ward – the When I Grow Up Coach – has built a successful career coaching practice very quickly by focusing on creatives and pricing her services to be affordable. Starting out by offering her coaching services on an ongoing basis, she’s branching out into eCourses, group coaching, and much more. In this interview Michelle talks about becoming a certified career coach, building a coaching practice while working full-time and getting married, and working with creatives.

Learn more about Michelle at her site When I Grow Up Coach, and connect with her on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Join Michelle Ward and 3 other successful women freelancers on the first Women Entrepreneurs For Women Entrepreneurs webinar November 3rd at 12 PM CDT. Sign up for free before space fill up!

Prefer to read the entire thing? Here’s the full transcript.

Transcript

Robert: Hey there, this is Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer. And in this interview, I talk with creative career coach Michelle Ward. And Michelle, in the spirit of full transparency, is actually my career coach, my life coach, whatever you want to say. Basically, she’s helped me to really figure stuff out.

I first met her at a session with Alexander Franzen [sp], and I was immediately blown away by her really positive attitude, her good nature, and just really her vibrancy. In this interview, she talks about how she went through getting certified as a creative coach, why she charges what she does– very affordable rates, why she works purely with creatives, and much more. So, check out this interview with Michelle, and I’ll see you on the other side.

Hey, everybody, this is Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer, speaking with Michelle Ward, the When I Grow Up coach. Michelle, how are you doing?

Michelle: I’m good, Robert, thanks for having me. This is fun.

Robert: Hey, thanks for joining me. Now, I know what you do, and in the spirit of full transparency, I am one of your clients, and we got connected when you were Skyped into a session that Alexander Franzen, now a mutual friend our ours, did.

Michelle: Yes, yes.

Robert: But for the folks watching this video, they might not know what you do, so what is it, exactly, that you do?

Michelle: Well, as you mentioned, I’m the “When I Grow Up” coach, and I help creative people either devise the career that they think they can’t have, or discover it to begin with. So, I get a wide range coming to me that either say, “Oh my gosh, Michelle, I have to get out of this job, I don’t know where I’m going, I don’t know what else I want to do, but you have to help me find it. My soul is getting sucked out of me.”

Or else I have people that come to me and say, “I know exactly what I want to do. I just don’t see how it’s possible, and I need to start figuring out how this could work within the realm of my life, and start taking the steps to move forward and creating an action plan.”
And I deal with people in between. So that’s sort of the realm of how I help people, the services that I offer, and who I work with. And all the people that I work with are creative in one way or another, whether it’s by their ideas, or with their hands. So it’s exciting to work with those out-of-the-box sort of people, because I’m one of them, too.

Robert: [laughs] Excellent. Frankly, when I first heard the term, “life coach”, I think, OK, what the heck is that? It sounds, maybe a little hokey, maybe like, “What, I don’t have my life in order?” You know, blah, blah, blah. Obviously, I’ve turned that idea around, [laughs] that attitude around. Can you give an example of some things that life coaching entails?

Michelle: Sure. Absolutely. And I have to say that I had the same sort of reaction when I first heard about “life coach”, and it took me a while to get over that hurdle, and actually say, “Oh, I could be a life coach without being someone that is going to read someone’s tarot cards, or is going to use crystals in order to help somebody.”

And I had that “hippie-dippy” mentality, which did take me a while to get past and go, “Oh, I could help people. I could be the person that I needed when I was 26, 27, and knowing that I didn’t want to pursue acting as a profession anymore.” I had my background in musical theater, and my degree from NYU in musical theater, and I would not want to go see someone like that, and I could be that person, and kind of embrace that piece of it.

But, in terms of being a life coach, and I am someone that has been certified as a life coach, we’re really taught that the client is the expert in their own life. So, as a life coach, immediately, some people think, “Oh, I’m good at telling other people what to do. I’m going to be a life coach.” And that is so the opposite of who we are, and what we do.

We are here, instead, to withhold judgment, to withhold advice, to really help the client clarify for themselves, A, what is it that they want to do, and then, how can it actually happen? And by asking questions, you know, we’re taught to ask powerful questions, and we’re told to power listen, everything is power, and really be there for the clients, and support the clients in what they want to achieve, and hopefully allow them to see things in a way that they might not have seen before.

So, allow them to think for themselves a bit out of the box, and in a different direction than they might be used to, or they might have done previously, to get them where they want to go a bit quicker, a bit less painfully, and really help them along the way, and supporting them, and celebrating with them. I mean that’s all wrapped up in being a life coach.

Robert: Cool. So, you said you were certified, and I know that’s a long process. What does being certified entail?

Michelle: Yeah. Honestly, I think that the certification process is different, depending on the school that you go to, and there is a… I like to call them a union, of sorts, because that’s kind of the best way to explain it, that’s called the International Coach Federation. And they’re the ones going to the schools that are saying, “We’re going to certify life coaches”, and making sure that that’s regulated, that that’s in line with the things that they want to make sure are touched upon, and when you call yourself a certified life coach that you have training in the following areas.

And so, for me, I went to the International Coach Academy, which is actually based in Australia, and all of their classes are over the phone. So that sort of blew my mind. And as someone that lives in New York City, I just assumed when I knew I wanted to get certified that I would go find a place in New York City, and go sit in a classroom, and have a very traditional sort of learning environment. And it turned out that that wasn’t the case at all. And I had a lot of trouble finding a school that was in New York City that I could go to in person.

And since I work with my clients, right now, strictly on a phone or email basis, it was really great to get that learning environment totally over the phone, to be on the phone with people from all over the world. And because of how that school structured their classes, you could take it within six months if you just go at it fulltime with everything. Or, like me, you could take up to two years to complete your studies. They offer classes from 6:00 in the morning, until 11:00 at night. And you take them in whatever order.

So it’s still, like, 140 hours worth of classes. You have to be coached, you have to coach, I think it’s seven people yourself, you have to write a research paper. But, again, every school’s different. I liked the ICA because of the structure, and because of everything else that it involved. I knew I was getting really quality training.

Robert: Gotcha. Yeah, it sounds pretty rigorous.

Michelle: Yeah.

Robert: One of the things, too, that, at least from the client perspective, from my client perspective, that I was surprised about is, as you just mentioned, you’re living in New York City, and I think the rates that you’re charging, for what you do, I was surprised at what they are, frankly. Because you have traditional therapy, if you will, it’s like 100 plus dollars now. I mean, crazy amounts of cash. But your pricing is so that someone that is freelancing can really afford it. It’s very affordable and great stuff. So how did you arrive at the pricing structure that you have?

Michelle: It’s been a bit of a climb and a bit of something that I continuously look at. And to be honest with you, I’d be surprised if my rates stayed the same, like, after the first of the year. But I don’t see myself pricing my sessions so that I’m only working with executives, or businesspeople, or people that are on this different price point, I guess, because I love working with creatives. I love being able to…

I’m not looking for those businessmen Those aren’t the people that I like working with, those aren’t the people that I work with the best. And so I feel strongly that I wouldn’t want to price things out so that my people wouldn’t be able to afford it.

That said, I’m still a fairly new businessperson. While I have been coaching since 2007, when I started my certification, I’ve only been fulltime as a creative career coach since March. So it’s only been a little over five months at this point, and I’m starting to learn, “OK, how do I work best. What’s my limit?” Right now I’m working about 60, 65 hours a week. My plate is totally full. I’m not taking on any new clients until November at this point.

And so I have a feeling that the structure of my business is going to change. And I might start making group sessions more as a major part of my business so I could offer that lower price point, and then raise the private sessions

I definitely want to put products into my business. I’m about to announce an e-course that I’m going to be doing with a friend of mine, so that’s going to start at the end of October. It’s still one of those very organic, new sort of things, but I also feel strongly that coaching isn’t a one-off piece. And I get disheartened when I see coaches that are charging $250-$300 for a session, whether it’s an hour, whether it’s two hours, because I am very invested in the process, and I want to know that when I work with a client that they don’t feel that, “OK, I can only afford one session a month, if that. Or, I’m just going to call Michelle when I need a quick fix, and it’s going to be a one-off.”

I’m investing in coaching as a process, and I’m also investing in building a relationship with my clients, which is something, personally, that’s really important to me. Because that’s a really, really big part of why I do what I do. And I always say, I’m nothing, if not a relationship builder. And that’s where I get my energy and passion from.

I don’t want to just sort of know people on a one-off basis. I want to be able to say, “Here are the clients, and I’m helping them through their journey, and I’m able to see what they’re achieving.” So, it’s kind of all those things rolled into one. Complicated answer. [laughs]

Robert: No, that’s great. So, you said you’ve been coaching for a number of years, but then you just were off on your own, now, for about five months, a little more than that. What were you doing before you moved into this full self-employment?

Michelle: Yeah. I was setting myself up for full self-employment. Honestly. When I realized, back in 2007, when I was sort of in this limbo of, “I know I don’t want to pursue acting anymore, but there has to be something else that I could be passionate about doing.” And I was trying my darndest to find something stable, a.k.a. not freelancing, because, as someone who pounded the pavement as an actress, it was like, “OK, well, if I’m going to find something else, it had better be something that I have this job security and insurance and benefits, and blah, blah, blah.”

So I ended up enrolling in a career change course at NYU School of Continuing Ed, and I went in there with the idea of life coaching, but like I mentioned earlier, rejected it for, you know, me not being a hippie, and for it being entrepreneurial. You don’t have to be a life coach and be entrepreneurial, but that’s another subject for another day.

But I immediately was like, “No, this isn’t for me.” And the more I went through these different exercises, I put the pieces of puzzle together and went, “Oh, crap, you’re an idiot. This is what you’re latching onto, this is what you want to do.”

And I knew from being an actor, and also from doing real estate for about two years, where, even though I worked for a company with a commission on the job, I knew that I really, really needed a big safety net. I couldn’t say, “OK, I’m going to go be certified as a life coach, and go to my school, and get that training, and leave my job, and not make any money, because that is going to be me hitting the floor within the matter of a week. The money’s going to run out, it’s going to be pressure time, it’s going to be bad news.”

And at the time that I decided to go to school for life coaching, I was in a customer service-based job at a company. The job itself was OK. My manager was a nightmare. He was verbally abusive. I would literally start becoming physically ill, psychosomatically, when I was going to work. But then when I said, “Oh, I’m sick, I’m going to head home and work from home,” and I would leave the office, I would feel fine.

So, I knew I had to get myself into a stable job that I could clock in at 9:00 and clock out at 6:00, as opposed to having a Blackberry, and being on call 24/7, and traveling, which is what I was doing with that job. I needed a, if not warm, friendly, kind, wonderful environment, at least one that didn’t make me physically ill. And I needed to just have that sort of structure be what I’m doing in terms of getting certified and I’m building my business, and I honestly didn’t know how long it was going to take me.

But the very month I started ICA in my coaching classes, I started as an executive assistant at a financial consulting company. And so I sort of knew, “OK, this is where I’m going to be until I’m ready.” And within that time frame, I ended up getting engaged, I ended up getting married, and so school took longer than I thought, necessarily, it was going to.

But when I graduated in 2009, I knew, “OK, now I’m really putting the pedal to the metal, in terms of building my business.” And I knew I wanted to have a few months of my full-time salary in the bank so that I could feel that I had a cushion in terms of not pulling the trigger on plan B for six or seven or eight months. But at the same time, I also wanted to make sure I had a certain number of consultation calls coming in, and just that feeling that, “OK, people know you’re out there and that you exist, and you are going to get more people coming in to your business.”

So, finally, it was December of 2009, and I was looking at the clients that were coming in and realizing I didn’t have the time to coach them, and I was being held back because of my job, and I was getting a steady stream of consultation calls. And I looked at my husband and said, “I think when I get my bonus in March, I’m going to be good to go, and I’m going to give this a shot.” And he said, “OK, let’s do it.”

So that’s what I did. It took me two years and seven months, and now I’m at the point where I haven’t dipped into any of the money that I’ve saved, and I have a wait list till November, and it’s going awesome. Yeah. So that’s what I was doing until March, when I said, “OK, time for me to leave corporate America and branch out on my own.”

Robert: Awesome. That’s quite a build up, too, right? You said, like, two years and seven months. Was there any particular reason why you took, say, the executive assistant job as that transitionary job, if you will, versus some other type of job?

Michelle: Absolutely. Well, my background, while I was acting, was more sales stuff. My real estate job led into different sales positions, and those were just not working for me. I enjoyed working with clients and bringing that relationship-builder part into things, but I hated the pressure of being a salesperson, and not knowing when my next check was coming, and so on and so forth.

So, when that led into this customer service position, where I knew I wanted to capitalize on the customer service part of sales, but not have that sales piece, anymore, I really did enjoy that. I was just in a very toxic environment, in a company that just wasn’t doing well.

So I think the executive assistant made a lot of sense, because it was an easy transition for me to say, OK, I was an account manager at this place, but I also was in charge of calendaring, I was in charge of travel for my manager. I did these things that were executive-assistant-based. And I went to a few recruiters, and they seemed very positive that, “Yes, we could find you a job, and yes, you’re marketable as this.”

And I was told over and over again, “Oh, you won’t find a job in finance,” which I wasn’t necessarily looking for, but everyone said, “Oh, if you do, then that’s where the money is.” And so I knew that I wanted to make as much as I could while having an easy job, and I felt like being an executive assistant wasn’t going to be challenging, energy-draining sort of work. It was still going to be work, but it was going to be easy-ish work.

And the fact that this particular company was very adamant about not working overtime, about not giving the people that you supported your cell phone number, you are in at 9:00, you are out at 6:00, you have an hour for lunch, that they really wanted you to take– end of story. And so, those are all of the pieces. And I felt like I wasn’t going to make myself physically ill on a daily basis by being there. [laughs]

So those are all the pieces and what led me to, “OK, executive assistant makes the most sense.” Because I knew from the start that I was there, to leave. So, yeah, that all sort of added up for me.

Robert: OK. So, were you able to, or are you now able to use a lot of the same skills that you used in that job, also, for your business?

Michelle: Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh, and I guess…and this is one of the challenges I’m facing lately, is that I can do all the admin pieces of my job. I could be on top of the billing, and the scheduling, and the following up, and all of the pieces that I need as an entrepreneur and as a “solo-preneur”, as I like to call it. I’m a one woman band, right now. Because I can do all that, it’s become very difficult for me to pass that off.

And I know that my business is now very split, as to when I’m coaching, and when I’m able to focus on coaching and building that part of my business– writing articles, reaching out to people for guest posts, doing different business- building things and doing the admin stuff. So, while I was able to bring that piece into my business, I don’t necessarily want to be doing it. And I just hired a VA with real money. She was someone I was bartering with for a while, and I said, “OK, I think I’m paying you now.” And gave her, like, “OK, here’s my money.”

And she’s at yourcreativeally.com. Her name’s Sarah. We’ll see. She’s going to help me sort of keep track of what needs to happen and just help me with that admin piece. So, yeah, it’s helped, but it’s also kind of hindered, because I feel like, “Oh, I could do this stuff, why am I paying someone 40 bucks an hour to do it?” So, we’ll see. Yeah, scary.

Robert: Yeah. So then that will leave you more time, as you said, to build the business, a big part of which is, obviously, getting new customers, which, so far, you don’t seem to have much of an issue with. How have you been finding your customers? I was introduced to you via the session that Alexander Franzen did. Other than those types of things, is it those types of things that bring in a lot of customers for you? Or how do you go about it?

Michelle: It’s interesting. I don’t necessarily have a real big plan of attack or a real blueprint for marketing. When I knew that I had to build my business, when I was in a cubicle, it really limited me. And I embraced it instead of seeing it as a challenge. I’m like, “OK, well, what can I do in my cubicle when the manager isn’t looking, and when I don’t have any other work to do?” And I knew I wasn’t going to be able to go out there and network and meet people face to face, wasn’t going to be able to really travel or anything like that. I was going to have to sort of use social media to the best of my ability.

And thankfully…and it’s interesting, because I’ve always been someone that has enjoyed writing, but I realized, “This is what I’m going to have to do.” And I think I really ended up focusing a lot on my blog; Blogging continually, finding other people’s blogs, commenting on them. Taking a blogging e-course that’s actually being offered now – it’s Holly Becker of decor8blog.com offers a great course, called “Blogging Your Way”, where I ended up unknowingly being the one coach in a sea of creative people who want to either open up their own Etsy store, they’re designers, or something like that. And that gave me marketing that I didn’t realize I was getting when I went to the class; I just wanted to take a class about blogging.

I got on Twitter. I started learning about Twitter– how to use it effectively, who I needed to follow, and how it all works. So I’ve been blogging and tweeting for about two years, on average. And I just said yes to mostly everything. Someone wants to interview me for their blog? Yes. Someone wants to…Alexander– do you want to talk to the people in this seminar I’m giving about leaving their day job? Yes. Do you want to…

I got featured in Newsweek. There’s a whole video about me and being a life coach and what life coaching is, but it’s basically a video on me that I got because I did an interview for this girl’s blog. He’s like, “Oh, I saw you on Lola Lena [sp], of all places, and I thought you’d be good for this interview.” If someone wants me to do a guest post. OK.

So, it’s saying yes to everything that I could, getting my name out there as much as possible. I don’t know, I find that really honing in on what makes you authentic, and what makes you, you, and what makes you valuable, and owning it, and sort of bringing it wherever you go, whether it’s online or in person, I mean that, to me, as broad as that sounds, or as unspecific as that sounds, that’s been the key. Because if you’re able to keep this consistent tone and look, and really be able to say, “This is who I am. This is what you’re getting when you’re working with me,” and I’ve really taken pains to have my website reflect that, have my blog reflect that. I write all the copy on the website myself. So I want people to know what they’re getting when they work with me, and I think that’s been a really big way to get the wall down, and to make people feel like they already know what they’re getting before they even sign up to work with me. So, it’s all these pieces. Yeah.

Robert: Great. So, to wrap up this discussion. You’ve already given a lot of advice in there. Lots of big nuggets in there and whatnot. But for someone that’s considering, because I think there are a lot of people out there, that are trying to get over this hump. They’re like, “Oh, crap.” The same things you and I both faced, of, “OK, I want to do my own thing. I’m not sure.” There’s a lot of fear built up in there. What, maybe, one or two tips would you give to those types of folks.

Michelle: Oh, my gosh.

Robert: [laughs]

Michelle: Number one, find out what you want to do next. I think it’s really important to be very clear as to, what’s the next step going to be? And part of the reason I am so committed to the coaching process, and tell my clients, “I want you to be in this for 12 sessions.”

Because there’s nothing worse than rushing to the answer, or being desperate for the answer, and going, “OK, yes, I’ll do this. Let me sign up for this. Let me give these people my money, and let’s try to make this happen,” when it’s like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. Take a step back.’” I don’t want to say that there’s no rush. But if you take…for me usually, with my clients, 12 sessions is four months. A lot happens in four months. It’s only four months.

So, allow yourself the time and the space to, what I call, live in the questions, and really start figuring out, what are the questions? What could be the answers to the questions? Let’s sort of get my feet wet in different ways, let’s learn what I can, let’s talk to people, let’s get informational interviews, let’s see how this all applies to me and what makes the most sense in my life.

And then, once that’s a bit more concrete, it’s then committing to the baby steps. Because for me, being committed to doing something every day, even if you’re saying, “Today I’m only able to put up a new blog post. Today I’m only able to go on Twitter and find 20 new people to follow that are my people. Today I can only update this copy on my website.” Taking that time, allowing yourself that space to be OK with just doing one thing a day, or just taking 10 or 15 minutes.

I have one client who is working on a documentary. She wants to make all of these very short documentaries, and she’s committed to working 15 minutes every day. And usually, she does give it more time, but when she knows it’s only 15 minutes, she’s able to take herself off the hook. But 15 minutes is better than nothing, and at the end of the week, she’s usually given about two hours to the project, which is definitely not chump change.

So, sort of seeing it as not an all-or-nothing, not an “I need a free afternoon,” “I need to wait ’til inspiration strikes,” “I need to be on vacation.” Working within the parameters of your life, letting yourself just take whatever you can take from it, and moving forward in baby steps is, I feel, the best way to build yourself the strongest foundation that you possibly can.

I credit that as the key to my success, and why I was able to leave my job after two years and seven months and feel like I have the biggest safety net, and not have to tap into that money at all, and watch it grow, and have the business evolve into what I want it to be. And now, hopefully, move forward with the next piece of it. So, yeah.

[laughter]

Robert: Fantastic. Well, hey, Michelle Ward, When I Grow Up coach, thank you very much for your time today, I appreciate it. We’ll have to catch up again in the future to see how your business evolves over time as it grows.

Michelle: Anytime. Anytime. It’s going to be interesting. I do feel like group sessions and products and e-courses, that’s all going to play a part. I just don’t know how or when yet. So, we’ll see. Yeah. Feel free, check in any time.

Robert: Yeah. Well, we’ll definitely check in. Thanks again, Michelle.

Michelle: Great. Thanks, Robert.

Robert: All right. Bye-bye.

Michelle: Bye.

Robert: Hey, it’s Robert Dempsey again. Hope you enjoyed that interview with Michelle Ward. You can find out more about Michelle at whenigrowupcoach.com. You can also follow her on Twitter. There are going to be links to that on the post where this video is. If you’re listening to this via iTunes, got to LifeoftheFreelancer.com and just search for Michelle Ward. You’ll find the interview and you’ll be able to link to all of her good stuff.

You can also hear Michelle speak at the Women Entrepreneurs for Women Entrepreneurs webinar, the first that we’re going to have at Life of the Freelancer, on November 3. If you go to LifeoftheFreelancer.com, click on the webinar’s link, and you can sign up for free, and hear Michelle and three other fantastic women entrepreneurs speak on the issues that will really help women to be successful having their own businesses.

Now, some other stuff that we have at Life of the Freelancer to really help you to be successful freelancing, we have workshops, we have how-to videos, and a ton of other content. And you can also get all the goodness, or follow all the goodness, at twitter.com/lifeofthefree. I’m Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer, and I look forward to seeing you next time. Thanks.

Work-Life Balance For Freelancers Is A Myth

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:01:19 +0000

Whether you’re a one person operation or you have a business with employees, you are a business person. And if you’re a on-person operation, that means that you have a lot of things to handle, specifically everything in The Business Funnel™. With all these balls up in the air, is work-life balance really something that you can achieve, or is it a more a matter of learning how to juggle?

Click here to view the embedded video.

One can say that Work–life balance is the proper prioritizing between “work” (career and ambition) on one hand and “life” (pleasure, leisure, family and spiritual development) on the other. – Wikipedia

This definition is traditional and outdated, especially for entrepreneurs. Building a business isn’t work in the traditional sense – it’s a part of who you are and what you do, it’s a part of your life. Having friends and a family is also a part of your life, as is doing fun stuff or taking it easy.

It just happens that when you’re an entrepreneur building a business, something that most see as “work” is just another facet of who you are and what you do. It’s a fully integrated part rather than something separate.

Definitions Of Work - Nothing about freelancing our entrepreneurship in there

Interestingly, when you look up the term “work” in Wikipedia, you won’t find “building a business” or “being an entrepreneur” or “being a freelancer” on the list.

Forget Work-Life Balance, Learn To Juggle

Yesterday I had a great conversation with Erin Klink, the Founder and CEO of Footstepz, a company that I would term the Mary Kay of shoes. Erin is married, has 4 kids, her husband is a farmer (therefore self-employed), and not only runs Footstepz (which has consultants all over the U.S. and growing in Canada) she hosts home parties and sells the shoes herself. Saying that Erin is busy is a gross understatement.

After we recorded the interview, Erin and I were talked about how to handle so many things in life without going completely crazy. What it came down to is that sometimes you have a lot of work to do and that’s where your focus goes, and other times there is less work and you can spend more time with your family.

When the demand for your attention shifts, that’s juggling.

So stop worrying about and looking for balance, and learn how to juggle.

Screw The Internet Marketing Mindset

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:00:57 +0000

When it comes to selling, or persuading people to buy you’re stuff, I believe there is a difference between marketing and Internet Marketing (aka IM). Let me share with you what I think the difference is.

When I first started learning more about marketing I was introduced to people including Chris Brogan, Darren Rowse (Pro Blogger), Brian Clark (Copy Blogger), and then other folks like Naomi Dunford (IttyBiz) and Johnny B. Truant. I consider these people great marketers – they are on the light side of the force. They use solid and proven marketing techniques for good – helping people to do better.

For instance, Johnny B. Truant is selling a product called Storyselling 101, which I purchased and really like. In it Johnny talks about defining your ideal reader and determining what you can help him/her with. You then use story and concepts like Inception to connect with that person and reel them in.

There are two ways you can take this. The first is to use this technique to sell some crap product that won’t actually help the person improve. On the other hand, you can use this technique to break down the barriers we all put up due to our past run-ins with horrible sales people that screwed us over, and sell the person something that will actually help.

It is a very fine line to tread. And it is this line that defines the difference, for me, between marketing and Internet Marketing.

In Internet Marketing land, the seller doesn’t care about you – all they care about is their wallet.

So to make their wallet fat and yours skinny, they use these techniques to pull you in and get your money, selling you something that ultimately doesn’t help you at all.

But let’s be realistic. At the end of the day, when all the smoke has cleared, you have to make money to stay in business. But you can try to get down that road fast, burning every bridge you cross, or you can build a business that lasts years, and builds value.

If you’re serious about building a business that can more than support you, a family, and the lifestyle that you want, take another look at The Business Funnel™. There’s a bit to learn, and it can all be learned. The information is here, and it’s out there.

Don’t fall for the people that tell you how fast you can make money doing X,Y, or Z. I’ve tried that before and it doesn’t work. Look at the people that last, the people I mentioned above, and study how they operate and the techniques they use. Read the books, listen to the interviews, and then experiment, experiment some more, and then experiment with the experiment.

Does anyone out there know the exact formula that will work for you? I seriously doubt it. But I do know that you can discover it for yourself.

Self Promotion and Branding Secrets Of A Hollywood Agent – with Alec Shankman

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Alec Shankman is the CEO of GotCast.com, a platform and social network that brings both undiscovered stars and Hollywood Executives to the same place, getting it’s members in front of the Casting Directors and Agents that can launch their careers.

I was very interested in speaking with Alec as Hollywood is an ultra competitive place, and personal branding, marketing, and promotion play a big role in getting known by the right people. Listen to the lessons that Alec shares during our conversation. All of them can be applied to your self-employment career to help you get in front of the right customers.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

The Business Funnel

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:00:24 +0000

If you want to be successful in business, there are only 5 things you need to learn about, and they are all in a little something I call, The Business Funnel™.

The Business Funnel(TM) - Click For Full Size

My mission at Life Of The Freelancer is to help people build successful businesses, doing what they love. I want you to enjoy the freedom, the happiness, and all of the other benefits of having a business.

Whether you decide to be a one-person operation or build a company with many employees, if you want to succeed, you need to start thinking like a business person.

When I first started my business at the ripe age of 21, I had no college degree and no formal business training, just a lot of attitude and a “I will make it happen no matter what” mentality. Over the past 10 years I’ve gotten the degree and an MBA, and been what I would consider successful in business. None of that would have been possible if I didn’t educate, and continue to educate myself on the fundamentals of business.

When you were in college, did they give you any business classes? When you had a full-time job, did they teach you how to act like an entrepreneur, wearing many hats and performing many business tasks?

Yeah, I didn’t get that either, until I did the MBA, and even then there wasn’t too much entrepreneurship. But I don’t think you need an MBA to be successful in business. If your dream is to run a large corporation producing some type of widget, then by all means go. Or if you want to make great connections, then go.

But if you’re going to build your own business, and I mean a business that will grow and thrive, then you need to learn about the 5 things in that graphic up there.

So let me ask you a few questions.

Do you want to do what you are truly passionate about?
Do you think there may be a market for the product or service you can provide, or are you interested in finding out?
Are you willing to put in the time and effort it will take to build a business that will support you, in exchange for the freedom and happiness you will get by doing what you love?

By answering yes to those 3 questions, you are ready to start on your path to self-employment. And I will help you get there.

Be sure to subscribe to the posts by RSS so you don’t miss a thing. I am looking forward to helping you on your journey.

Freelance Rails Development, Podcasting, and Speaking – with Jason Seifer

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 13:00:00 +0000

Jason Seifer builds some serious web applications with Ruby and Ruby on Rails via his dev firm Twistedmind. I caught up with him in between his recording and editing The Dev Show and The Ruby Show podcasts for 5by5.tv. When he’s not out proving that Rails does in fact scale, he’s active on Twitter, where you can connect with him.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

How to Sell With Stories – with Johnny B. Truant

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:00:00 +0000

Being unique is no longer enough. Yes you need to be unique, however you also have to be able to tell your story in a great way to really connect with your audience at their core.

Johnny B. Truant has an awesome story. He seemingly came out of nowhere an in 9 months was making a 5 figure income, all while supporting a family and coming off of some serious financial and business set backs. And at the heart of what Johnny does for his clients and how he sells his products, is his story. So it’s no wonder that his latest product – Storyselling 101 – teaches us how to use our story to sell.

In this interview, Johnny gives away a surprising amount of info that you find in Storyselling 101 (I bought it and it’s awesome) as well as some more of his story that you probably haven’t heard.

Take a watch and let me know what you think in the comments.

Warning, Johnny and I let the language go, so if you’re adverse to cussing, tough patooties.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Prefer to read the entire thing? Here’s the full transcript.

Transcript

Hey there. I’m Robert Dempsey with Life with the Freelancer. And this interview that you’re about to see is with a guy named Johnny B. Truant. And Johnny has a great story. He went from basically some financial troubles and what have you to making a five figure income within nine months. And he has some really innovative ways that he made that happen.

And really, what it comes down to is having a great story, never giving up, having persistence, trying a whole lot of things, finding what works, and then once finding what works, just running with that and kicking some major ass.

And so over the course of this interview, Johnny and I do talk about his story selling product. And the reason for that is that a lot what I’ve been reading lately is that it’s not just good enough to be unique. You have to have a good story. And for me personally, too, I don’t like to sell. I don’t, frankly, think that I’m very good at selling.

And a lot of that is because I’ve had a lot of bad experiences with sales people; I’ve been pressured into buying stuff and whatnot. However, the reality is, for us as freelancers, and if we want to have a sustainable business, is that we have to learn to sell.

And so the story selling concept that Johnny has is basically through the stories we can really connect with those folks who can really use what it is we have to offer and build a sustainable business with it. So check out the interview, get your pad and paper out, get ready for a ton of advice when I talk with Johnny B. Truant. And I’ll see you on the other side.

Hey everybody. This is Robert Dempsey at Life with a Freelancer. And I’m speaking today with Johnny B. Truant. Johnny, how’s it going?

Johnny B. Truant: Hey everybody. How are you?

Dempsey: Good. So we got to very briefly meet at South by Southwest, this past South by Southwest, so I’m very excited to talk to you today. I would say that you’re one of the more blatantly belligerent people writing stuff out there that I know about. And at least for me, that attracts me in a cool guy kind of way. Not a creepy…

Johnny: Not in some creepy, stalker…

Robert: Yeah, not some stalker kind of way. So let’s start off. If you can just briefly tell folks that are listening to this, that are watching this a little bit more about yourself.

Johnny: You know, the funny thing is, it’s always surprising to me how people perceive and describe me, because, to me, every day, I’m just like some fuck-up, basically. And it’s funny to see the perceptions that are out there.

I was telling you before we started recording that I went to Chris Guillebeau’s booking signing yesterday in Ann Arbor. He’s doing an unconventional book tour for “Art of Non-Conformity”. And somebody in the audience, in the Q&A session, he said it’s really cool and encouraging to see that all you guys just normal guys. And hence, the implication was that anybody can do it and we’re not special in some way.

And he said…the quote was:

“I expected Johnny B. Truant to be eight feet tall and breathing fire out of his nostrils.”

Robert: [laughs]

Johnny: Yeah. But, you know I guess…when you say “describe myself”, this is always an interesting thing, because for the longest time I haven’t known how to describe myself. And it’s like when I was talking to Chris yesterday. So Chris is like, “He’s a travel blogger and he does The Art of Non-Conformity, the unconventional thing.”

And Adam Baker from Man vs. Debt was there, and Adam is a personal finance blogger. And so, what the hell am I? I guess I’m a consultant and I’m a producer of information products. And will Question the Rules I was sort of a punk rock entrepreneur.

And I think what my thing is going to be, because this is brand new and this is one of the things we’re going to talk about, is I think that I am a person who teaches folks how to market and infuse their business with stories.

And this is something I imagine you’re going to ask about too; I am kind of all over the map. I’ve written posts about why I want to get a tattoo. And I’m going to be moving to Charlotte, North Carolina from the Cleveland area. What does that have to do with anything? Honestly. Why should that lead to success in any way, shape or form? There’s a lot of people out there who are doing that.

And the answer is that, and this is sort of a macro and a micro level as well, is whenever you’re doing anything in business, you are in some way selling yourself. You’re either selling yourself as a person who’s worth listening to, and following, and continuing to read the end of their posts, and subscribe to the RSS feeds, and commenting, or as like a JV partner or, if you’re approaching other bloggers, as somebody who might be a good guest poster on your site, and then obviously, on a micro level with individual products.

And because I do sell everything through stories, what I have essentially done is I’ve been able to sell Johnny B. Truant to the world as a personality through the use of a lot of these stories.

And one of the most important things about selling through stories is that you don’t just tell a story. You need to be able to have the reader recognize themselves in the story so that it’s something that…it’s like you’re writing their story in their absence, sort of. You’re writing the story of us, like a collective story.

And I think that’s one of the things that I’ve done to draw people to me. So this is a roundabout way of answering y our question. I guess I’m a personality, you know? And once I’m that, I’m then a bunch of other things. I’m a guy who knows about business, I’m a guy who sort of…You know, you do Life of the Freelancer, so it’s we entrepreneurs are a weird bunch. So I’ve talked a lot about that. That’s basically who I am.

Robert: Right on. And so in terms of background, I know on JohnnyBTruant.com, on your “About” page, you talk about pretty much, like within this nine month space of time, you went from kind of being unknown to making a really good living, or at least making a living, doing what you do now.

So as you said, the writing and the consulting. And I know you do a lot of building sites for people and things of this nature. So what were you doing before you got into that? Or were you doing it and then just all of a sudden it started to take off, and then nine months later it’s kick ass?

Johnny: Well, I wasn’t doing any of the Web 2.0 stuff. I was making my living online, but only in the sense that I was building websites. But I was doing it in sort of a traditional form. And I guess the traditional form of website building is you have clients who you know in person, you’ve maybe cultivated them for a while, they’re in your town and so forth.

And the way I thought of that was like $5,000 or nothing a website development. So it’s either doing something elaborate for them, it was like a $5,000 project, or it was literally nothing.

And I was doing it with Dreamweaver website development, where you’re basically building stuff page by page, very monotonously. And it was different from what I’m doing now, but the end results were in the same family, I guess I’d say.

But my marketing methods were all very different, and I hadn’t really done Facebook, or Twitter, or blogging, or anything like that. And I ended up…I don’t know how much of the story you want, but basically, things started going badly. The economy was starting to tighten up, and I had three or four clients, and all of them, in one way, shape, or form, started to use me less, and then eventually stopped using me, all at the same time, pretty much.

One of my other gigs was I was a writer for a human resource magazine; a big one, a good one. It was really boring work, but it was a good job. And when a magazine, when the economy tightens and advertising revenue gets to be less, they tend to write more stories in-house. Like the editors don’t just edit, they write and edit instead of hiring freelancers to save money. All of that was going on while I was having some real estate investments that started to go really very poorly at the same time.

The post that’s at the top of my blog right now actually, as we record this, it’s the first of October, so look back to around that time if you’re curious, is called “You Will Fail”. And it’s all about how everyone fails. It’s not a matter of the successful people succeed and the unsuccessful people don’t succeed. It’s a phenomenon where the successful people fail, and fail, and fail, and fail but just keep trying stuff until something succeeds.

And in that I talk a little bit about how I’m actually really grateful for some of the failures, because they forced me to do stuff that I wouldn’t have done otherwise. So in my previous life as a website developer, I was comfortable, I guess, when things were going well. I was comfortable enough. I was making OK money; it wasn’t great. And I did tend to work a lot, and I kind of had to scrap for things. And I kind of had to really press the clients that I had to get as much work out of them as possible, because there were only three or four of them.

So it was that weird position where if you consider your life and your job and so forth on a scale of zero to 10, it was a six or seven, or something like that where you’re satisfied enough to stay where you are, but not unsatisfied enough to change.

So when things really started to get bad and I just started to lose thousands and thousands of dollars a month thanks to this perfect storm of whatever, and I’m bleeding it out of the home equity line and credit cards, it was so bad that I had to do something else. I just had to. And what I’m doing now came out of that. Now what was your original question, because I’ve totally gone off on this tangent about…?

Robert: Yeah, no, pretty much exactly that. What were you doing before you really got into doing the WordPress work and everything that you’re doing now?

Johnny: Well, that was it. So now I’ve reached the apex of that story, and I guess I’m ready for your next question where I suppose I resolve it and tell you what happened.

Robert: [laughs] Yeah, absolutely. Let’s just go right into what happened.

Johnny: OK. Well, I was basically at that point, I was just hungry enough to say: I didn’t know what was going to work, I was just going to keep trying things until something did. And I think that’s something people overlook when you’re an entrepreneur, is that when you see something that works…So, for instance, you said that I published this accolade about going from zero to, in nine months, having $10,000 per month. That’s the accolade I use. And my first year was a six figure year.

You tend to see, “Well, what did that guy do and why was it so special?” And you see the one thing that worked, but you don’t see all the things the preceded it that didn’t work.

So that’s a place that I was, was that I was trying a lot of things that weren’t working. I mean when you first decide, “I’m going to start an internet business and I’m going to make money on line,” you end up with the AdSense schemes, where you go to the site and they talk about you’re going to make 60 cents every second or something like that, and on auto-pilot, and there’s big banners and so forth.

And through experimenting through some of that and smelling a pretty hefty dose of bullshit, honestly, I ended up running across a handful of folks, and the key one was Naomi Dunforth of iddybiz.com.

And the reason I really appreciate what she did and does is that she is the antithesis of that. She’s teaching the same stuff…well, not literally the same stuff, but the same field of stuff, and not in a bullshitty way. Almost in an anti-bullshitty way. Almost like, “I’m going to expose all of the flaws in humanity in what I do” and people love her anyway. That sort of thing.

And so I resonated very strongly with her. And eventually…I could drag this out but I won’t…I ended up pitching her on an idea. And she had a course that was called Online Business School. And I came to her in this a course after going through all of that crap; all that stuff which I don’t really want to say “scam”, but they’re kind of scams.

And so I thought, “She’s getting tarred with that same brush”, because, you know, it’s a make money online thing, is really what it is. And if people don’t take the time to really get to know her, you think that about any sort of product that’s going to teach you how to make money online.

And also, the other thing was that people tend to look at somebody who is successful, like Naomi, and they think, “Well, of course you can do it. You’re Naomi Dunford. I probably can’t do it.” That’s what a lot of people think.

At the time, I had made under a dollar, maybe, online, just through trying to do this AdSense stuff that was going to make me a millionaire. You know, right? And I had them on my site and I’d make a cent every other day or every other week or something.

Robert: Big money.

Johnny: Right, exactly. Big money. Like, this is my millions, right? So I said, “Let’s try an experiment. I’ve only made a dollar,” and she kind of knew me by this point through just a bunch of stuff. She didn’t know me ahead of time, but she knew me after exposures through social media.

And I said, “Why don’t we do an experiment where I will be your case study. And I will use your stuff, and I’ll use your advice, and I’ll build my business, and people can watch, sort of reality show-like, on your blog.” I would write posts on her blog chronicling what I was doing so that people could see what a normal person would do sort of starting from scratch.

And that was the beginning. That was the genesis of everything else, was guest posting on her blog. And it very quickly steamrolled into being in more and more places and having more and more exposure, and eventually building the business that I’m doing now, which is, there is a component where I’m building websites. I’m also a consultant and a coach, and do a lot of info products, and hopefully a lot of cool stuff.

Robert: Right on. That’s really, I think, a brilliant idea, too, because typically, it’s the people that are creating the products or trying to get into coaching that pitch someone else and say, “Hey, I’ll give it to your for free if I can get your testimonial.” But you did it completely the opposite. You’re like, “Hey. I’ll take all your stuff, do it, and then you can use me as a testimonial.” So that’s cool.

And in terms of perception about Naomi, it’s interesting. I took a very deep foray into internet marketing myself, and I saw, yeah, there’s a crap ton of bullshit, “buy the dream, you’ll make a ton of money”, blah, blah.

And eventually, when you get exposed to this stuff, and after buying a number of products, you’re like, “This is complete crap.” But I don’t put folks like you or Naomi or Cobby [?] Blogger, Darren, Brian, Sonya, Chris, who I got to interview, like none of you guys are, I would say, even close to any of that.

So it’s interesting to me that you say that Naomi would even get painted with that same brush. But maybe that’s because, as you said, I’ve been watching her and reading her blog for a long time. And so I knew that she wasn’t bullshitting anybody into buying her stuff. And I bought a number of products, and it’s been really great.

Johnny: Yeah. You know, it’s like…you shouldn’t have to overcome a really crappy perception. That’s, I think, what it is. Because you’re right. Once you get in and you read her stuff, you realize that she’s not.

But if I go and I have a great outstanding thing, and I go to your door to sell it to you, right away I don’t even have a shot because I have to overcome the door-to-door salesman, not that that’s a thing anymore, but you know what I mean? You’re starting at a serious disadvantage.

I’m glad that that experiment worked out so well, honestly, because she…if I hadn’t done my thing then it wouldn’t have worked for her either. So luckily, we did prove that it can be done.

Robert: Right on. So you’re doing, again, this kind of mixture of things that came about from this kind of, you know, hellish, a-lot-of-lessons-learned type of experience. And you talk about selling your story, and you have a great story.

And I was reading a blog post the other day that said, basically, being unique is no longer enough. You have to be unique, yes, but you have to be able to tell your story in a very good and compelling way to connect, as you said, with people at a more core level than….

And I think it’s especially true for folks like yourself or like me that are out there trying to sell what it is we do, but not in one of these kind of classic, Internet markety, spammy, bullshitty kind of ways. And so is that where your story selling is coming from? What’s that all about?

Johnny: Yeah. I’ve always painted myself as a work in progress. After you have a certain amount of attention in this space, people do tend to look at you as a guru, unfortunately. So, I don’t know. I guess there’s a perception that you kind of know what you’re doing. I mean, I do know what I’m doing, I guess, but I don’t know it all.

So I guess what I’m saying is that this is something that I’ve really kind of come to realize recently, just sort of as epiphanies, so, of course, now I know them I’m going to share them.

One is the story thing, and I’ll actually attack that second. But the first is that people are generally unwilling to sell. I think that’s a good blanket statement– that it’s very rare that people are willing to do to what it is to sell, because there’s this perception that we all have of the pushy salesman. There’s the used car salesman who’s going to sell you the undercoating that isn’t worth anything, just because they make a few extra bucks on it. Or they’re going to push you into a purchase that you weren’t ready for. Or, “Act right now because this deal’s going to end tomorrow.” We do some of that, by the way, but it’s hopefully done in a better way.

But the point is, you have that perception of sales, when really sales is about matching a need that’s out there in the world with something that you can provide. It’s really about matching needs. And you, as a provider, you should thank your customers for working with you, but you shouldn’t have to. It’s not like they’re doing you a favor. It’s not like, “Here [xx 19:30] and here’s money.”

It should be mutual. It should be something that you’re happy that the customer bought something, but the customer should also be like, “Wow. This is exactly is the product that I needed. The price is reasonable. I get the value out of it.” That’s a two way exchange.

And when people don’t really realize that, then they tend to kinda back off. And I know a ton of people who have something that’s really good, they have a good consulting practice, they have a good product, but there’s one guy in particular I’m thinking of, but there’s a bunch of them, and they’re unwilling to push it. They have too much negative association to sales.

So number one, I think, is being ballsy enough to say, “Look, I’m not pushing crap. I have good stuff.” Because you don’t want to annoy people, but what I really don’t want is, you know, I’m selling “Storyselling 101” right now, and I know that there are a ton of people that really want that. They do. What I don’t want is somebody to want it and be able to benefit from it and never know about it.

So that’s what sales is. It’s about trying to get information in front of people, not pushing people into doing something that they don’t want to do.

So with that said, I think that the notion of using story is a great solution for that. So number one, don’t be afraid to sell. That’s huge. I think if you’re going to look at it in terms of being pushy, just be 10% more pushy and your sales will go up, honestly. Because people aren’t going to think you’re pushy unless you’re an asswipe. You know, just be “Sell more stuff,” and you’ll sell more stuff.

But in addition to that, the use of story is a way of getting inside the defenses of people. People put a wall up in front of you. They don’t want to hear what you have to say because they’re used to being sold too forcibly. Now when I talk about getting through defenses and lowering shields and all of that, it’s important to note that, again, we’re not the used car salesman. It’s about putting the person in a receptive state, not trying to sneak something by them.

But with that said, if somebody’s involved in story of a product creation, then they become engaged on an entertainment level first. Then when they get to the point where they can actually buy something, when you get to the point that it’s actually something that they can act on…

And when I say buy I don’t mean literally press a “buy” button although to some that’s the case. Sometimes it’s just leaving a comment. Sometimes it’s subscribing to your feed, or following you on Twitter, or responding to a survey. Or maybe it’s an email that you’re sending to a popular blogger, and you want them to buy into you wanting to post on their site.

When they get to that point, they’ve already sort of sided with you and they’re also in a state where they’re in a reading state. They’re in an entertainment state rather than, “OK, well, this guy’s going to sell me. I’ve got to be looking for the catches.” Like you’re reading through a sales letter, “OK, well, where is…”

I mean, how many times have you thought to sign up for something, and you wound up trying to figure out what the guarantee is right away? Or you want to, if it’s something that’s membership based, see if you can see where there’s, go back through the, I’ve done this, go back through the site and see if there’s a clear way to unsubscribe, because sometimes unscrupulous folks will hide it. They’ll be kind of like, well, it’s really hard because you can’t even find it.

If you’re thinking that way, then the sale is harder to make. The way that I look at this is, I have a novel that I have not published. It’s written. It’s in my closet. I tried for a while, because this is pre the Johnny B. Truant days, I tried to publish it for a while.

When you submit letters to agents to try and get them to look at your work, just imagine, this agent is a very popular agent. Maybe they have an assistant.

That assistant, that kid who’s just trying get through the publishing world and this is just a grunt job for them, has a stack of stuff that they’re just trying to get through, and it’s one item on their list.

Then forget about the agent. The agent has a bunch of stuff to do, and they only see what’s sent to them.

I always felt like if I could grab that agent and say, “Here. Look at this thing. Here it is. You’re in a receptive state. Forget about the rest of that stuff. Look at my stuff,” that I felt like I could sell that novel because it was good. But the problem is, you have to get it through that filter.

That is what this is about. It’s just about getting a person in that receptive state. So you’re not manipulating them. It’s just you’re putting them in that state where they’re willing to hear what you have to say.

When we did QuestionTheRules.com, which is of course and now a blog that I did with Lee Stranahan, my goal, it’s a punk rock entrepreneurship course. It’s based on the presumption that if you’re an entrepreneur, you’re kind of punk rock, right? I mean, do you consider yourself kind of punk rock a little bit?

Robert: Oh, yeah. I’m a bit off the handle, yeah. [laughs]

Johnny: Right, right, right. But a lot of people don’t identify like that. Like I can tell you, “OK, well, this is for punk rock business people and you’d understand what I meant. But a lot of people are like, “No, I’m not. I’m not.”

So rather than give them a bullet point list of why this is the right course and it had these features and it’s got 15 speakers and six modules and all that stuff and explain what they would gain from it, instead of doing that what I wanted to do was to show them that they were punk rock. They hadn’t been identifying at it, but here’s sort of the symptoms of it.

An entrepreneur has a certain sort of, I don’t want to say disrespect, but they don’t want to really follow authority, at least in some ways. They’ve decided that they’re going to kind of give the finger to the conventional way of doing things. Usually they’ve had people tell them that they’re stupid or crazy to do what they do or that they’re ballsy or something.

I wanted people to read this and nod along and agree that they’re punk rock through reading a story of me and how I am and what punk rock is, so that by the end they see that the solution that I have come up with in creating this course would apply to them too, because they’re punk rock.

That’s what it really is. It’s a way of getting the person in a state where they’re actually willing to listen to what it is that you have to say and what you are selling to them, whether it’s a literal sale or not.

Robert: So basically “Storyselling 101” is going to, so say I sign up for it right now. It sounds free and all. I am one of those people that doesn’t like to sell.

For instance, I was speaking with Jim Kukral and he was like, “Dude, you’re not selling.” He’s like, “How do you have a business if you’re not selling?” I’m like, “Well, I’ve seen all these Internet marketers and blah, blah, blah.” He’s like, “No, scrap all that.”

I love the, as you said, not manipulating folks with a story, but people, especially I think with going freelance, it’s like you want to work for yourself so it’s how do you get people over the hump and just be like, “Fuck it. I’m going to do it.” Why not, “I can do it”? You can do it. I talk with 20 people a week that are frigging doing it. I mean, you’re doing it and kicking ass.

So with that then, so say I sign up for “Storyselling” right now. Everything that you just basically like the how to, what, write the story, how to… What am I going to get right when I get in there?

Johnny: Well, it’s called “Storyselling 101” for a reason. I’m going to create an advanced version. So this is sort of… The other reason is, usually if there’s an advanced version, like advanced physics, if you aren’t versed in physics, you don’t go take advanced physics. You take 101 first because you need to get your grounding.

So you can think of it that way. It’s of course to get your grounding for people who aren’t familiar with the concept and maybe don’t think of themselves as storytellers, because everyone has a story to tell.

So what I talk about in that is, there are a handful of key things. The first thing is finding your ideal reader or your ideal audience, because so many people… Who’s your target market? You ask somebody that. Who’s your target market, and people will say anybody… Who’s your target market?

Robert: Well, basically people that want to be self-employed, freelancers.

Johnny: See, I would narrow that, and that’s what this is about is I like to come up with an ideal reader and say, “OK, well, is it…?” And by the way, because I’m going to give you a few of these, as we go through this, this isn’t saying that if somebody doesn’t match this arbitrary thing that we’re going to come up with that they aren’t your people. It’s just a way of focusing your attention.

So I would say things like, “Well, when you’re writing and you’re talking to people, do you think your ideal person is male or female?” I would say, “What age are they? What demographic. What do they do in their spare time? What music do they listen to?” Because what you’re trying to do is to create a picture in your mind of one ideal person.

This is borrowed. I’m borrowing Stephen King’s example in the book “On Writing” where he talks about his ideal reader is his wife Tabitha. So rather than just writing stories out of the void, he’s writing basically to her. When he’s writing something that’s scary, he’s trying to scare her. If he tells a joke, he’s hoping that she’ll think it’s funny. He’s imagining her.

By focusing in that way and trying to say you’re going to appeal to fewer people rather than more, what you will do is you create a hyper-connectivity with people who are really, really right for you. So I know you know that I’m not trying to appeal to everybody, right, because I do have a polarizing personality. Not as much as Naomi, but I do have one. If people aren’t into what I’m doing, that’s cool. I want to let them go.

Now my ideal reader is actually male, just because that’s how I’d picture probably because he’s a lot like me. But what I’ve found is that my audience is actually slightly more female. So that’s the sort of thing that can happen. But if I didn’t have that picture in mind, then I can’t write, and if everything I do is a letter to that person.

So that’s one thing we discuss is how to find and create that ideal reader, and then how to craft your story because you can borrow elements from fiction for your non-fiction, for your marketing materials. When I say borrow, again, this isn’t to say that you’re making stuff up, but you think in terms of character.

You as a character have certain aspects and so forth that should be lent to your marketing, in my opinion. Most people portray themselves as very flat one-dimensional characters. Most people are “the marketer specializing in X” or “the guy who teaches golf” or “the world’s foremost golf professional” right? it’s stuff like that.

That’s not who you are. Real people can’t be summed up in one sentence. Whenever you read a book with somebody who can be summed up in one sentence, like “the hooker with the heart of gold,” that character always reads as paper-thin.

So it’s about developing yourself as a protagonist or, if you’re not the protagonist, then developing that other protagonist. It’s usually you though, in most cases. Finding the plot and theme of your story, whether it’s of the individual product or service that you’re working on at the time or your overall story arc.

So for instance, Clay Collins did “Project Mojave.” “Project Mojave” was about creating your freedom business, and that’s how he marketed it was you’re creating a business that will allow you to have the freedom to then do what he called, I think he called it a legacy business or a purpose-driven business. So it was a two-stage thing. First get your freedom and then do purposeful work. So it was meant to be largely or entirely automated.

So by introducing the theme of freedom, the theme of slavery to freedom, that’s a very appealing theme. If you have that, or you have David versus Goliath, or you have some other dominant theme, you’ve got to pull it out. You’ve got to pull it out and allow people to connect with it.

I could go into a lot of detail here. There’s plot, character, theme. There are other elements. Then there’s the element that I call inception, based on the Leonardo DiCaprio movie this summer, which is fantastic and I love it. So it’s based on the idea of planting an idea in somebody’s head.

Now it isn’t as sinister as it sounds. Basically it’s you want them to reach the conclusion that you want them to reach in advance, not through mind trickery but through leading them down a path and showing instead of telling so that they’re able to see it in advance of you having to say, “Hey, you, this is true.” They are able to look themselves and say, “Hey, this is true,” which is obviously a better way to go.

Then lastly, how to draw everything into whatever particular point, one singular objective that you have for a particular piece of marketing or email or post or whatever. Then I break through some of, I have a video where I break down material that I use to promote “Question the Rules” and just basically show you the elements that I used for those pieces to persuade. That was a very successful launch, so it worked.

Robert: Awesome. So it sounds like, in listening to you… Well, first of all, “Storyselling” sounds badass and I’m probably going to have to sign up right after we get off this call and talk to you about that.

Johnny: See, I’m selling you through a story. Look at that.

Robert: Yeah, I know, I was sitting here thinking, “He’s using this, he’s doing this with me on it.” No, it’s badass. But, again, what I realized after I realized that marketing is something that I absolutely need to learn as much as humanly possible about to make business happen. So once I realized that and seeing again how people do it on the shady side and whatnot.

Tell me what you think of this. Because you said a number of times not to manipulate people and not to do this, not to do that. Because it seems like a lot of the especially the psychology behind a lot of what is used in marketing can be used for both good or bad. It’s a fine line between the two, and it’s totally up to the person using the techniques for if they become a Jedi or if they go to the fricking dark side of the force over here.

What it seems to me that you’re really talking about and trying to get across is that the whole purpose too behind this story isn’t because you’re trying to trick everyone on earth or on the Internet into buying your stuff. What you’re trying to do is make sure you really have the connection with the right people who are the folks that you’re ultimately trying to help.

Then at the same time, so you get the altruism in there, but at the same time it’s like, “I’ve got to make money and do a business, otherwise I won’t be able to help anybody.” So that’s really what it comes down to rather than the, “Hey, I’m going to just try and trick people into buying my crap.”

Johnny: Yeah, I have a bunch of stuff to say about that actually. I had a teacher in high school tell me to, he said, “Be sure to use your powers for good instead of evil.”

[laughter]

Johnny: But, yes, I think good sales persuading somebody who needs and can benefit from something that you have to go ahead and do it, to overcome their own inertia essentially. Bad sales is to pressure somebody into buying something that you want them to buy.

So in other words, if I’m doing all of this, I know we didn’t schedule this as a sales call between me and you, but if I’m trying to convince you to buy “Storyselling 101,” you’d have to be interested in it, and you seem to be. So I would encourage that, and if you said, “I don’t know how to sell,” and so forth, then I would encourage even if there was some reluctance that you really should try this because it will help you.

But if you were really backing off, “Ah, it’s not right for me,” the bad sales way is to then try and bring up all of the pain that I could summon from you and try to persuade you and make you feel like, “Oh, well, I guess you’re content being an amateur; you’re not ready for my stuff,” and try and use trickery to convince you to buy it even though you don’t want to. That would be the bad way to do it in my personal ethical opinion.

Now with that said, everything that I do has been about win/win. I know that people say win/win and they kind of give it lip service, because it’s one of those things that people say. They say win/win. They say paradigm shift. They say these things. But I have found that I can do better, I make more money, when I help people out.

For instance, “Storyselling 101″ is a fairly inexpensive product because it’s a 101 level product. When I say fairly inexpensive, I mean in the universe of info products. So if you’re into $20 books, you’re going to think it’s expensive. My point is that in the sphere of info products, it’s not terribly expensive.

“Advanced Storyselling” will not be inexpensive. In order for me to be able to successfully sell something that is a higher price point, I can’t say, “Can I justify this price?” I can’t say, “I’ve put in my dues and therefore now I can arbitrarily raise prices.” I have to say, “How can I help people significantly enough that they’re able to get enough benefit out of it that it’s a natural thing?”

That it’s like if I charge X for it, what can I put into that product that will allow somebody to get two or three or four or five or 10X out of it? How can I do that? If I have any hesitation, well then maybe I want to throw in some consulting.

It’s all about adding value and saying, “Well, how can I give you, dear customer, the biggest chance of success?” If I’m creating a new product, then I have to look for a problem and I have to say this is something that people have a problem with. How can I most effectively help them to solve it?

Because I think that there’s all sorts of trickery that people can do where they essentially pretend to solve a problem or they offer some sort of quick fix with some sort of a B.S. guarantee that they know nobody’s ever going to take them up on. They just basically figure, “Well, I’m going to play the percentages. I’m going to get their money this percentage of the time and I’m going to refund this smaller percentage, so it’s a net win.”

I think that that’s utterly unsustainable, and for the people who do manage to sustain it, I just think it’s evil. So that’s it, personally.

Now again with all of that said, there is a reluctance, I see this especially with people in real humanitarian service businesses, people who are coaches, like personal coaches helping people through problems, people who consider themselves to be philanthropists or altruists or something like that, have a reluctance to want to make money, because the implication is that you should do things for free if you’re trying to help people, and that’s crap.

What it’s like, what you said a second ago is what made me think of it, is if I don’t make money then I have no incentive to keep making stuff that can make the world a better place, that can make businesses better for other people. This is all, it is win/win, and the first win has to be me. It’s got to be you and me.

If I just, I’m all about charity, but as a business model it doesn’t make sense because we all need money to live. So if I can’t make money through this, I’ve got to go do something else which means I have to do less of this.

So that’s something I think a lot of people need to get over is understanding that it’s OK for you to make money. The important thing is that you deliver enough value that it’s a justifiable exchange. Both parties have to win.

Robert: Gotcha. Cool. [laughs]

Johnny: Yeah, but that’s the cool thing. If people get that, if people really, really get that, then it solves a lot of problems in business because it gives you permission to sell, and you need to sell.

Robert: So then it’s just a matter of helping people get over the hump of how to, kind of teach them how to sell without feeling like some sheisty, philandering, bastard type person.

[laughter]

Johnny: Right.

Robert: To use colorful language there.

Johnny: Yes. The other thing that story does, by the way, is it removes the why in a lot of cases. I heard an ad on the radio a while ago for a free laptop. It was a free laptop, and even the shipping was free. All you had to do was call this number.

Now I know there are people who will look at that and say, “Wow, that’s great, a free laptop. I’m going to call that number. It’s not how I work, and it’s not how my ideal customer works.

When I see that, I want to know why they’re doing it. Laptops cost money. Shipping costs money. That radio spot costs money. What the fuck is in it for them? Why are they doing it? Because they aren’t revealing what’s in it for them, I’m thinking it’s something evil. I’m thinking it’s like there’s a virus on that computer that is going to record my keystrokes as I go to my bank account or something and rip me off.

It’s got to be something like they’re going to try and upsell you on software. Or maybe it’s preloaded with software that’s paid and it has a 30-day limit, and you’re going to get to the end and you’re going to have to buy the paid version. It’s like maybe that’s what it is.

My argument is go ahead and just close that. Go ahead and tell me the story of why it is you’re doing this free laptop promotion because then I at least know what it is and I’m going to stop looking for other ulterior motives.

I might look at the story and say, “Oh, well it’s got a 30-day trial of some software on it.” I’m cool with that because I’m still getting the damn laptop. I don’t care if you make money on software. I got the laptop for free. I understand how it’s a benefit to you because you’re going to make commissions off the software or whatever, but if you don’t tell me then I’m going to assume the worst. And that’s what a story can do too.

I use that in my marketing all the time. I’ll tell people. I’ve done promotions. I did a promotion when I wanted to buy a washer and dryer. I sent a blast out to people and said I’m doing cheap consulting or cheap…one of my things was cheap.

In that email I said, “So this is how this works. This is a marketing ploy. I’m coming with an excuse to have a sale so that I can make money. But what do you care because you’re getting cheap stuff too?” So the story removes the why, which is a good thing.

Robert: That’s a really interesting point. God, and I totally had a response and I totally blanked out on it. OK, so yeah. So I just remembered what I was going to ask then. So telling the truth, like straight up, about it do you think that, because it seems like there are two issues.

Number one it’s getting the people just to the point to feel, OK, we’re telling the truth. Then saying it in such a way maybe that it’s not as, how could I say? Like I’ve read a lot of stuff that says, well, sometimes you’ve got to be careful with how you phrase things, because you don’t want to make it sound like a negative, because then it might throw the barrier right back up.

But it sounds like what the advice is, is that it’s like if you just don’t lie to people in the first place and they don’t worry that you might be lying to them, then you have a much greater chance of success by just being like, “F it, here’s the situation. I am doing this, yes, to make money but that’s because I want to be able to do this full-time and help people out.”

Like for Life of the Freelancer, I tell people, “Look, I am trying to make this into my full-time job.” So I ask everyone, “What’s your recommendation for being able to do that?” But at the same time, yeah, you’ve got to make money to be able to keep the thing going.

So am I right in saying that the advice really is just be honest? Just straight up, put it out there. Don’t worry too much about it because it could do more good than harm in that case.

Johnny: Well, as Lionel Hutz once said on “The Simpsons” there’s the truth and there’s the truth. Because there is sort of a kumbaya way to interpret that which basically says just tell literally everything that’s in your head, and that’ll make everything rosy.

I don’t want to insult everybody’s intelligence. I’m in marketing and there is a science to marketing. So you do need to be genuine and authentic, but this is where character comes in. One of the things that great characters do is they aspire.

If you’re having a bad time and things are slow and things are weak and you’re just having a bad month or something like that in terms of sales, then you as a transparent business person could go on and just whine about how you’re afraid that it’s all going to fall apart and it feels unsustainable and so forth. This is the larger picture, the picture of you as a business person. And people do that. People do it. I call them whining posts.

Robert: [laughs]

Johnny: Right, very appropriately, right? And that would be the truth, because that’s how they feel. But the problem is that’s a character who we’re emphasizing the negative aspect of a character. That’s a character who’s kind of down in the dumps. I think that’s acceptable sometimes, but a great character aspires and they’re positive. They are able to turn lemons into lemonade.

So you can literally tell that story, or you can turn it into some sort of an inspirational point or you’re going to do this new thing as the way of rectifying that situation.

So I guess what I’m saying is there are two sides to every coin, and to say that something is the truth is, it reminds me there was an episode of “Seinfeld” with the “Bizarro World.”

Robert: OK.

Johnny: I don’t know if you watch “Seinfeld.” Jerry was explaining to Elaine that Bizarro Superman was the opposite of regular Superman. So instead of saying hello he says good bye. And Elaine says, “Wouldn’t it be bad bye? Isn’t that the opposite of good bye?” And he says, “Well, not that opposite.”

So it’s hard to put, there’s no, I know I’m getting kind of metaphysical on this, but the point is that there are different versions of the truth and they’re all true. Kind of like if you keep trying to come up with opposites, there’s no absolute opposite because you always get to the point where, “OK, well, I can’t tell the story at all because I’m doing the opposite, and that’s not telling the story.” You know what I mean?

So it’s the same thing with the truth. You can emphasize the positive aspects of the truth that paint you as a better, as an aspirational character, as a character who believes in positivity, who’s resourceful, who has flaws but doesn’t wallow in them and that’s what you need to do. You need to pull out the salient points of character and plot and so forth that are true, and then you emphasize those while deemphasizing the other things.

I mean, what are you going to do? Does the truth mean showing somebody around your house 24/7 in your marketing? That doesn’t make sense. You have to limit it somewhere. So why not emphasize the positive. It just makes good sense.

And with those whining posts the other thing that can happen is you may be having a bad day. But if you put one of those posts up there, it makes you look like that’s the kind of person you are, and that’s a problem if you don’t do it right. The other thing that it does is it can make you look unprofessional. I don’t think it’s important to sound professional all the time, but I think it’s important to sound professional some of the time.

Like I said that I’ve made screwing up part of my brand, and I routinely do things that are kind of stupid. But I keep appointments, and I honor my commitments, and I deliver value, and if somebody has a problem I will offer them a refund. There’s a line to everything. So you want to emphasize the positive aspects of character in your story, and you don’t want to emphasize the negatives.

But that’s how I am day to day. If I have a bad day, I also don’t want to think about that day the whole time. I want to think of the good stuff. So it’s the same thing with your story. You tell the truth, but you want to make sure you tell the best version of the truth.

Robert: Right on. So to wrap up this conversation then, and I’ve been making millions of little mental bullet points.

[laughter]

As we went on, I’m like, “All right. I have a clear plan of action from this conversation, for sure.”

So now for someone that’s watching this or listening to this through iTunes or what have you, and more specifically for the self-employed folks that are out there, and they might be worried about selling or coming across wrong or whatever. You’ve given a ton of advice already, but maybe what would be a few just parting pieces for these folks to really help them get over their hump and just get going with it?

Johnny: Yeah, I know what that’s like, honestly, because I’ve had some pretty bad times. When I say pretty bad times, again, they were not pretty bad because I got to keep the house, a roof over my head, and my family was healthy and so forth. But financially it was not fun. So I know what that is like, and honestly the most important thing is persistence, and persistence with acuity.

People have said to me, “You are successful because you managed to land the thing on Iddy Biz.” The implication is that it was lucky, and it’s not lucky. It was I was going to keep trying things until something worked.

Now that happened to work, but if it hadn’t then I would have, I don’t know, kept trying to write posts on Problogger or I would have kept to doing the niche website and maybe found a way to make it work or I would have done Facebook ads. I don’t know. I just needed to keep trying things until something worked.

If you were to say to me, “Well, what if it hadn’t worked?” it’s like I don’t even know how to answer that question because something was eventually going to work. Even if I had lost my house and we ended up on the street, what am I going to do then? Curl up in a ball? You always have to keep doing something.

I know that people hate when they are in a bad situation and somebody says this, but I’m going to say it anyway. I wrote a post on Elizabeth Potts Weinstein’s blog. It’s elizabethpottsweinstein.com. It was called “What Matters.”

At the time, Elizabeth’s daughter, she just was diagnosed with a brain tumor. I believe she’s OK now, but Elizabeth was going through a ton of shit, as you can imagine. Her kid’s got this brain issue. She was asking for guest posts because she was in the hospital and dealing with all this stuff. So she wanted people to offer guest posts to her blog.

That post was about realizing what you would give up in a certain situation if it meant saving something that was really important. So if somebody came up to Elizabeth and said, “Well, OK, you’ve got to give up this business that you’ve been working on for years. You’ve got to give up your house and your apartment and so forth, but that will make everything OK with your daughter.” I can imagine it, because I have a son her age and it freaks me out even to think about it.

You think about it, somebody would say, “You can take away everything. Take away all this stuff as long as I have the things that are really important.” If in that scenario you could give up all of this stuff, then it doesn’t matter. Again, I realize how that advice sounds because people, it’s like saying, “At least you have your health.”

But I say this as somebody who’s been in that situation, as somebody who has really had some terrible financial stuff happen. I’m talking months and months of panic attacks and not being able to sleep.

Knowing how irritating it is, I’m going to offer the advice anyway that what you are ascribing a huge amount of important to, in the grand scheme if you’re honest with yourself, really doesn’t matter. It just really doesn’t.

So once you remove that false importance, and when I say false importance people ascribe it like world-moving importance. Like you’re going to die if your business fails, and it’s just not true. If you’re able to remove that and just accept that if you keep trying stuff and you keep trying stuff, you may have setbacks but in the bigger picture you’re going to be OK, I think that that’s a huge thing if you can really grasp it. So that’s my advice.

Robert: Awesome. Well, Johnny B. Truant with JohnnyBTruant.com and now the “Storyselling 101.” I’m sure folks can get to that through JohnnyBTruant.com. Thank you so much for taking the time. It was really fun to talk with you and get to know a bit more about your story and whatnot. We’ll have to catch up later and see how things are going.

Johnny: Kick ass. Well, thanks for having me.

Robert: Right on. Thanks, Johnny. Bye bye.

Johnny: OK, bye, bye.

Robert: Hey, it’s Rob and I hope you enjoyed that interview with Johnny B. Truant. Now if you’re listening to this on iTunes or just pure audio, I will have all the links to Johnny’s website and “Storyselling” and all that good stuff for you at LifeoftheFreelancer.com.

I hope that one of the biggest things that you got out of this conversation that I had with Johnny, one of the biggest things that I got, is that really selling isn’t dirty. It’s not at all a dirty thing. Sure there are a lot of people that are using psychology against you and I and whatnot out there, and we don’t want to be those types of people.

Using stories is one way that we can really connect with those folks that we can help and make a living by doing it. Because the reality of the world is we do have to make money, which means we do have to sell. So how can we do that in a really non-shady way, and help as many people as we possibly can. That’s what Johnny uses “Storyselling” for. That’s really how he does it.

So now if you’re ready to take what Johnny, his advice and the advice of Jim and all the folks that I’ve been interviewing here, and really start making that happen, then you check out the “Becoming Successfully Self-Employed” workshop that I have. If you’re not already freelancing and you’re wondering how the heck do I get into it, I’ve been there.

So go to LifeoftheFreelancer.com, go into the shop, or the store rather, check it out, and just let me know what you think if you do end up getting the workshop.

So anyway, Robert Dempsey, LifeoftheFreelancer.com, and I’ll see you in the next interview. Thanks.

How To Sell Like A 20-Year Pro – with Barry Maher

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 12 Oct 2010 16:00:00 +0000

Barry Maher started out selling cards door-to-door as a kid. With more than 20 years of sales and management experience and consulting under his belt, Barry gets paid to consult and speak at companies including ABC, AT&T, Johnson & Johnson, and Verizon. During this interview Barry shares a ton of advice on how you can bring in more business using ethical sales techniques. Get your pad ready for non-stop sales tips.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

And get ready for tomorrow’s launch of my next how-to video for freelancers: How To Sell Without Being A Jerk.

Lessons Of Motivation From A Children’s Book

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:00:00 +0000

In reading a book to my daughter the other night, I was reminded of an important lesson – the need for internal motivation. There are two types of motivation: intrinsic (internal) and extrinsic (external). For self-employed folks, intrinsic motivation is a necessity, especially if you work from home a majority of the time. Take a few minutes to watch the video, and then let me know in the comments what motivates you.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Take A Freaking Day Off

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 15:00:00 +0000

When you consistently work 12-16 hour days, taking a day off is a necessity. You know that feeling you get when your brain feels like it’s oozing out of your head? Yeah, that’s a sign right there.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Get More Business Now With This Free Webinar

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 18:00:00 +0000

So the title is a bit misleading as Scott Scanlon of You Brand Inc. and I will be talking about how to kick today’s economy in the ass and getting more business using some serious marketing and sales strategies.

Over the past months, Scott and I have been fortunate to get advice from people like Chris Brogan, Jim Kukral, Johnny B. Truant, Harvey McKay, and Steven Schussler – advice we don’t include in our blog posts or interviews, but can definitely help you improve your bottom line. So in addition to giving you that, we’re going to be sharing the insights from our daily interactions with freelancers, entrepreneurs, and other small business owners that are making it happen in today’s economy.

Click here to view the embedded video.

And in audio format …

We know your time is valuable, so we’ve scheduled the How To Thrive In Today’s Economy webinar for 30 minutes. It’ll be held online (as webinars tend to be) at 2 PM CDT on Thursday the 14th. While Scott and I do consulting, create products, and do paid webinars, this one is free, so sign up below and find out how to kick this economy in the ass!

See you then.

Developer, Product Creator, and Nerd – with Randy Schmidt

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 14:00:00 +0000

Randy Schmidt builds awesome web apps for clients over at Forge38, while simultaneously helping nerds celebrate nerdom with nerd merit badges, helping people lose weight at Lose It Or Lose It, or making sure people catch the right Septa train. Catch up with Randy on one of his sites, or on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Turn Attention Into Dollars – with Jim Kukral

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:00:00 +0000

Jim Kukral is the author of Attention! This Book Will Make You Money. I read Jim’s book and immediately starting implementing his advice in my business, and it’s working. In this interview, Jim provides even MORE actionable advice and insight that can help you become a successful freelancer.

Check out the interview below and let me know what you think in the comments.

Video Interview

Click here to view the embedded video.

Audio Version

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Prefer to read the entire thing? Here’s the full transcript.

Transcript

Robert: Hey everybody, it’s Robert Dempsey, with Life of the Freelancer. I am really excited to bring you this interview with Jim Kukral. Jim is a marketing guy, he’s an entrepreneur and he’s a speaker. He wrote a fantastic book called, “Attention: This Book Will Make You Money,” that I did a book review for. It gives a metric ton of actionable advice for self-employed folks like you and me that we can do at very little to no cost to really bring more attention to ourselves and to our business.

In this interview, Jim gives even more advice that you can take and start to implement in your business. If you do it, you’ve got to take action on this stuff that he talks about, but if you do it that will practically guarantee really to bring customers to your door. Check this interview out with Jim. Take his advice, turn it into action and start building your business.

I will see you on the other side. Thanks.

Robert: Hey everybody. This is Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer. I am speaking today with Jim Kukral, author of “Attention: This Book Will Make You Money.” It is an Internet marketing guide to helping people make their stuff happen.

Jim, how is it going?

Jim: I’m doing well. How about you?

Robert: Great. Thanks for taking the time to speak with me. I was introduced to the book through a blog post that Chris Brogan did. When I was speaking with Chris the other day, he again mentioned your book as one of the must-read books. The thing I like about “Attention” is that me as being a self-employed person can take those concepts that I’m sure even with your much larger customers you’re giving them, and make this stuff happen. That’s really cool.

Jim: The one quote I came up with in my life is, “Doers get what they want, and everyone else gets what they get.” That’s why I wrote the book, is the Internet Marketing Business, and any business really, but right now there’s never been a greater time in the history of the world to go out there and build a brand, to build a business by using essentially free tools or very inexpensive tools, and get your name out there and do something. That’s what I try to focus on helping people do. Get out there and do, because if you’re out there doing, you’re going to be successful. That’s why the book was written so that it would inspire and motivate people to go out there and make things happen.

Robert: Right on. And to that effect, I have so many bookmarks. I have your book on a Kindle, which is why I’m glad you have the cover there behind you. It doesn’t really show up well on this. A lot of what you talk about and what I’ve bookmarked really seems to revolve around people getting over their fear of doing things that could really bring just massive amounts of attention to themselves and their business. Do you find that’s one of the major stumbling blocks for people?

Jim: Yeah, I’ve got thing called “Five Day Bootcamp” that I built which is just a bunch of audio things that just inspire people to take action, just like what I talked about. But to your point, one of the biggest things I talk about in the book is, “Is your ego holding you back from making money?”

There are a lot of businesses, brands, and people out there who are so worried about how they look and how people are going to perceive them that they don’t want to go out there and try something different, or try something unique or better. I give tons of examples in the book about how people are taking 25-year careers and making millions of dollars from just standing out and being different.

One of the guys is Matthew Lesko, who is the question mark guy. Have you ever seen that guy?

Robert: Yeah.

Jim: He’s got the green suit with the question marks all over it. The guy’s got a 25-year career of being the weird, annoying guy in the question marks. But what he has done is he gets people to look in his direction.

This guy, he wears that suit everywhere. He wears it through the airport. He wears it to Target. He wears it wherever he goes. What happens is people notice him. He doesn’t care about what people think about him.

By the way, the truth is that, I interviewed him, the truth is that 99% of the people who see him love him. They come up to him and they want to take his picture and shake his hand and give him business. Then they take out their wallet, I don’t have my wallet, and they pull money out and they hand it to him.

He doesn’t care about his ego. He’s got products. He gets people to look his direction and he makes money. So that’s really some of the things that we talk about in the book.

Robert: So is he literally carrying his books around with him also for sale? You’re saying that people break out their money.

Jim: That was a metaphorical saying that when you get attention, you get people to look at you, you’re either good or bad or ridiculous or whatever it is, people notice you. We all understand this concept.

The problem is you’re exactly right with the fear. We’re scared to go out there and actually try those things because we’re so worried about what people think. From birth, we’re taught, “Go out there and be like everyone else. Do the same thing that everyone else has been doing since the dawn of man. Don’t stand out. Don’t be different. Be like everyone.”

In business, in business and in life, especially in business, if you’re not different, you’re like everyone else in the middle. When you’re in the middle, you don’t get noticed. Try playing on the edges. Play on the edge of anger and fear and disappointment. If you create an emotion in somebody, in a customer, right? This is what this is all about, customers.

If you create an emotion, you can create a reaction. A reaction is what you need to be successful in business. Getting people to take their wallet out and hand you money metaphorically, online, in person or whatever. That’s what you have to do.

Robert: That’s an enormous point too because, well to add to that point, I was reading a blog post the other day that even said that nowadays being unique is not even really enough. You’ve got to start stepping it up. Tell the story. Tell the story in a unique way, so you still have to be unique. But you have to go that extra mile to really, as you say, stand out amongst other people.

I know for me as a small business owner, all that same fear is there. Just like you said, from birth we’re conditioned to, “Oh, don’t stand out, don’t do this and whatever.” But I’ve seen the people that finally just let it go. And they’re like, “You know what? Screw it, I don’t care. I’m just going to do it. Why the hell not?” That’s the stuff that really gets attention.

Jim: Well, yeah, you’ve got to be your authentic self. Like Matthew Lesko isn’t a very quiet person. He’s actually like that in real life. Before this we were talking about Billy Mays. Billy Mays is a really nice guy. That comes across on camera and in his brand that he had. You can’t decide to fake it unless you’re the best actor in the world.

The tough part is figuring out who you are, figuring out what you’re good at, what you’re passionate about and who you are, and then just playing to that course authentically.

Me, I figured out that I’m a teacher. I love teaching people how to do things, how to be successful. I also figured out that I love motivating people. While I don’t have a lime green suit with question marks all over it, I certainly would consider doing something like that if I knew that it would help my brand or help my business.

That’s what this is all about. We’re all in this because we want to try to make more sales, more leads and more publicity. That’s what we’re all trying to do. If you get over the fear, you’re going to be more successful.

Robert: That’s a really good segue too to start talking a bit more about you. [laughs]

Jim: All right.

Robert: So let’s talk about you, Jim.

Jim: [laughs]

Robert: I know that by training, if you will, by schooling, that you are a PR guy. You got the degree in PR with a minor in sales and marketing. You’ve been doing it for a bit. Now from what I’ve, and no offense to marketing people out there, but I went to a lot of marketing events when I was in Florida. It was like marketers marketing to marketers. So they’re like, “What are the rules of social media and this, that and the other?”

With what you’re doing, from what I read your book, and then I found out more about you after that and I’m like, “Whoa, this guy is trained in marketing!” It’s so almost anti what you talk about in the book. So I don’t know, if you could talk a little bit about your background a bit more too, and then how you really got to the point of writing “Attention.”

Jim: Yeah, I’ve doing this for over 15 years. I got started in the Internet business back in, what, 1994 or 1993, right when it started to become like a business. I started out doing coding and building websites. This was before Tables existed in HTML, that kind of stuff. So I was doing coding, design and I realized something really quick. I realized that I was a very bad designer.

[laughter]

Back then I was doing graphic design before the Internet. I realized something else about 1999, was that I’m a better marketer. I could learn how to make money online by doing affiliate marketing and search and email and all those things.

So that’s kind of where I got my start. Why did I write this book? I wrote this book because so many lessons that I learned in life either about getting jobs before I was self-employed or helping other people or just getting noticed. You read the book. There are countless stories in the book where I talk about specifically how I used attention-getting ideas to get myself a job or a vendor position or whatever it was I was trying to do.

So it was really a labor of love. I wanted to share those techniques and those ideas with other people who want to find jobs, who want to get better careers. It’s all about doing what you want to do.

You don’t have to go to work nine to five and sit in a cubicle. You get this more than anyone, Life of a Freelancer, right? You don’t have to do that if you don’t want to. There’s nothing wrong with it. If you want to be…figure out what you want, then go out there and make it happen. Stand out and you’ll what you want more often than not, I guess.

Robert: So you said too that you came to the conclusion that you are a teacher and you love to teach. You do a lot of speaking as well. How long did it take you to get to that point in your career, to be like, “Ah, this is what I’m really passionate about. I’m going full-out with it.”

Jim: It’s frustrating because it’s taken me a long time to get to the point where I feel like I have a strong brand. I’ve been blogging since 2001. My first blog was a month before 9/11. I was writing about my day driving to work and things like that. It’s really frustrating for a lot of people because it can take 10 years, or it can take a year. It’s going to be different for everybody. You’re going to eventually figure out what you were meant to do and what you want to do. For me it took a lot longer.

You’ve got to decide what your real goals are, and your goals shift, right? Your goals shift. Before I had children, my goals were a little bit different. Eight years ago, nine years ago now, my goals are a lot different now that I have kids. So you have to figure out what you want to do and just really stay focused and go after that.

If you want to be a speaker who’s on the road 60 events a year, then you’ve got to go out and you should write a book. You should go out there and make a plan to go out there and do that. But remember you might get what you want, which can be really frightening. That’s why you really have to think about it, because do you really want to be on the road 60 events a year? Think about that if you’ve got kids at home. I don’t. I’d much rather do a couple limited events and sell information products and run my own web businesses and things that.

So I guess my advice is just really try to stay focused on what you want to do. Write your plan out. Write it down and figure out here’s where I want to see myself in two years, five years, 10 years. Focus on that plan and then just make headway trying to get there.

Robert: Right on. Even with that too, as you said, your priorities can shift too. So nothing is fully set in stone. It’s not like the traditional, like the way my parents were raised. It’s go to college, get a job, stay in that job forever, retire, done. It’s like, no, your plan can be a bit fluid.

Jim: Absolutely, and that’s what’s great about the business of the Internet and everything. Everything can change so fast. Where was Facebook and Twitter, what, four years ago, three, four, however long it’s been? Things have changed a lot since that time. We are able to build our brand, build our business, do things like this. We couldn’t have done this years ago. I mean, how cool is this?

So things change. Things move fast. And, again, it goes back to the doing thing. If you’re not trying, if you’re not doing things like this, this is a great example. Just getting on a recording and having a conversation and then broadcasting it on the Internet is just a great example. Try. Do. Go out there and you’ll find that you can be successful with not really a lot of money spent, just some time and some creativity.

Robert: Yeah, absolutely. The tools are definitely in place. As you said, to allow really anyone to do some of the same things we’re doing now with that too, that means that a lot more people are just putting stuff out there.

So I’ve read some articles too and I’d love to hear your take about this of almost, it’s been talked about before, information overload. Now it’s almost like every brand is getting on Facebook. Everyone’s creating a Facebook page. That’s funny that you’d mention Facebook too. The movie, “The Social Network,” I think it’s coming out today.

So everyone is getting into it. I guess really it goes back to a lot of the stuff and the techniques that you were talking about in the book of how to really stand out. But do you think that it makes it just that much more important, then, for people to really get out and try just some potentially crazy things, because there is just this flood of information on social media and the Internet and everything?

Jim: Well, you’re right. There are a million things going on, Facebook, Twitter, the Internet. There’s a lot of noise. There’s an absolute lot of noise. But just like before, before there was noise. There’s still an opportunity for people to stand out on the edge of that and get noticed, you know, the one red dot in the middle of a sea of black dots. This is basic stuff that we’ve all been taught forever. A million marketing books have been written about this type of stuff.

The reason my book’s different and the reason that I wrote it is it’s really all about getting eyeballs to look at you and using the web and social media and offline as well. But what do you do with it once they get to you? Because there’s the disconnect. There are a lot of people who would say, “All right, well, everyone’s looking at me. Now what?” Right?

You’ve got a lot of bloggers out there now who get a lot of attention, big name bloggers too. But they don’t know how to make money for you know what. They don’t because they’re not marketers. They write really great content and they’re really authentic great people. But if you looked at their income statements, you’d be pretty darn surprised at how much they don’t make and how much potential they could be making because they’re just not marketers. They don’t know how to do it. So they were good at getting the eyeballs, but they weren’t good at taking the eyeballs and translating that into revenue.

That’s the shift that we’re starting to see right now is everyone’s saying, “Man, it’s easy for me to build a brand online, get noticed, get attention. But now what? How do I quit my job finally and turn this into, not $10,000 a month, but a $100,000 a month? How do I make a million dollars a year? How do I make $100,000 a month? This is what we’re seeing now, and it’s absolutely possible.

Robert: One of the things too before we started recording, and I’m like, “How do you describe yourself because you do so many things?” One of the things you did say is Internet marketing.

Now Internet marketing, from what I see as Internet marketing, there is the literally marketing on the Internet. Then there’s the people out there just selling products to people that are like, “You can make X amount of dollars if you follow my exact system.” There’s that kind of shady side of Internet marketing, which I know you’re absolutely not on that side.

So where was I going with that? [laughs]

Jim: What’s the difference maybe?

Robert: Yeah, well, because what you’re talking about, it seems like is, and I always ask people, “What’s the difference between, say, marketing and sales?” Because what it sounds like you’re talking about is you’ve done that marketing. You’ve gotten the people to your doorstep. Now you have to start converting those people into customers. Is that sales, or is that still a marketing function?

Jim: I see them together. I’m a marketing and sales guy. I think a function of marketing is to drive sales, and I lump them together. To your point about, I heard you say the word shady. People hate marketers, OK? Because why? Because marketers are the ones responsible for slamming ads at them wherever they go, so it’s natural that human beings are kind of like, “Man, marketers stink.”

But it’s misguided. It’s misguided, and I’m not blaming people. It’s misguided because there are a handful of bad ones around who have junk products, make false promises, and only care about making money.

They are really good marketers and they get that stuff out. And people buy it and they get it, and they’re disappointed because they didn’t make a million dollars from opening the box. And to your point, a lot of information marketers get a bad rap who have really good products because of that exact fact.

So if you’re watching this right now and you’re one of those people who have bought the 22-disc DVD set about how to get success online. I bought a whole bunch of those things. I spent a lot of money on that stuff.

Robert: Same, yeah.

Jim: I want you to consider this. The reason perhaps that you didn’t get successful from that was maybe that you thought you were just going to buy the product and open the box and read a couple things. And you thought you were going to get a system that you were just going to click a button and you were just going to make a million bucks.

Think about that for a second. I think that’s why a lot of people get bad raps with this stuff. Most of this stuff is really good and it works really well, but everyone seems to think there’s an easy button. Everyone seems to think that you just open the box and all of a sudden riches start coming to you.

The people in this business work like crazy. Chris Brogan writes a great article in his site called “The Myth of Overnight Success.” If you read that, you’ll understand that there is no overnight success. People in this industry work really, really hard. It’s different than having that nine-to-five job where you work at the job and you just come home and then you don’t have to think about it anymore.

So I guess my long-winded point is do. Apply what people are trying to tell you to do. It’s not that easy. We all bust our butts to work really hard. Information marketing, and by the way information marketing is really shifting right now.

What you’re seeing is a lot of the people who are big-name celebrities who made careers and fortunes selling through direct response on television are realizing that, wow, we could shift our expenses from expensive television, and start creating our own communities and products and selling them directly through the web. And instead of making a million dollars a month, we can make ten million dollars a month, because that’s how we can do it with the reach with the brand.

So it’s all shifting right now. I would advise anyone out there to stop worrying about the bad products. Do some research online and find the good ones. Social media, there are so many ways you can search now and find out what people are saying about a product before you buy it. That’s my long-winded diatribe against the people who say bad things about information marketers.

Now I’m not even an information marketer in that typical sense. I have products and businesses, but I am a little bit different. I don’t sell the dream as much as everybody else. That’s probably why I don’t have $10 million and I’m not sitting on a beach someplace. Because how to make money in that business is you sell the dream. You sell, “You want to be like me and drive a Ferrari and live on the beach in Cabo? Then you need to buy my system.” I don’t sell that.

Robert: Yeah, and to that point too, and on the about page on your site it says that you’re, and one of the reasons too that I was really attracted to the book and your story, is that you’re out there doing it. It’s not just sitting there coming up with this stuff and selling it as a packaged product not actually having done it really much, or only doing it on the people that are buying your stuff. It’s from the lessons that you’ve learned in putting it in place and having the businesses.

Jim: Yeah, from me or my clients. Like I said, I’m a teacher and I’m a tactical guy. I’m not big on the 40,000-foot social media and Internet marketing theories. I’m a guy who, as a small business owner myself, I’ve worked on the agency side, the client side, for big companies, little companies, owned my own businesses, entrepreneur, and people want tactics.

People want something that they can read or watch or listen to and they can take back to their office and make it happen right then and there. That’s what people need. That’s what small business owners need. That’s what entrepreneur need. That’s what I try to focus on, specific things that are going to help you just be successful right away.

Robert: And with the caveat, I would say, that you will actually get out there and fricking do it. Because either way, the leg work, you’ve got to do the leg work to make this stuff happen.

Jim: You’ve got to do it. You’ve got to just get out there and do it. That’s a huge part of my message. That’s why I love talking with people like you because you’re out there doing it. You found me. You said, “Let’s do this interview.” We’re doing it. We scheduled a time, and we’re doing it.

It’s really that simple, isn’t it, when you really think about it? But for some reason most people are so afraid of it, either if it’s the technology that they just can’t seem to figure it out. It’s really not that hard. What we’re doing right now was not a big deal, and it was not expensive by any means to do this. One of the things is Skype, which is free. The other one, you may be using a recording tool that’s, what, $20 or something?

Robert: Yeah, I think the Skype call recorder on my Mac is, yeah, it’s like 11, 12 bucks, something like that.

Jim: It’s $11. Now you’re going to be able to take this content and put it on your website, put it on YouTube, wherever you’re going to put it, and broadcast your brand and your helpful information out to people. It’s going to build trust to people like you for you. It’s going to build brand equity for you, because you’re going to be able to distribute it on Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and your blog and everything. It’s good and it was so easy to do, wasn’t it?

Robert: No, absolutely. I think the thing is too, at least for me personally, I could have approached this a few ways. It’s like, “OK, there’s this guy. He wrote a book.” You know, like who the hell am I? I have nothing out there. I’m literally sitting in my basement recording this and whatnot. I could have said, “Nah, Jim will never talk to me.” I could get caught up in that, or I could, well what I did was, I’m like, “Well, maybe Jim will talk to me.”

Jim: Absolutely.

Robert: “So let me see if I can contact him just to find out.” You said yes, and I was like, “Oh, this is fricking awesome.” I’ve been looking forward to this ever since you said, “Yeah.”

Jim: You know, look, one of the things you’ve got to do nowadays to get the word out about what you’re doing is you don’t turn down things. I’m glad to be here. That’s the other thing Matthew Lesko, the question mark suit guy, he said, “Man, before people knew who I was, I would have paid for people to know who I was.”

When you get somebody to ask you to do an interview or something, always do it. Never ask them how big their audience is. That’s the old stuff that people used to say, “Oh, how big’s your audience?” That’s ridiculous. I’ve done podcasts and interviews and video things for people that have zero audience who haven’t even started a business yet or started a blog or anything yet.

It’s about getting distribution of your message out across the Internet. You never know who’s going to be watching and who’s going to read it. Somebody from the biggest magazine or TV show in your industry could end up watching this and say, “Wow, that sounds like a cool book,” and call me up and say, “Can you send me a review copy?” All of a sudden, I’ve got great press from that.

So just go out there and try this stuff. Everyone’s approachable now online. The web has democratized the A-list people. I’m Z-list in terms of my niche. We’re all A-listers now. We’re all approachable. If you ever meet somebody who says, “How big’s your audience?” then you probably don’t want to interview them. My opinion.

Robert: Yeah, right on. Well, personally I don’t want to talk to those people anyway, so forget them.

So you have a second book that you’re writing too called “The Ultimate Pitch.” What’s the pitch for “The Ultimate Pitch”? [laughs]

Jim: That’s the tough one. Everyone expects me to have a great pitch. It’s called “The Ultimate Pitch: 17 Sure-Fire Strategies to Get Everything You Want in Life and Business.”

Robert: Badass.

Jim: OK? So here’s the pitch. The pitch is, “Would you like to have everything you want in life and business?” Your answer is?

Robert: Well, obviously, yeah.

Jim: OK, well then, you need to read the book.

[laughter]

Jim: There’s the short pitch.

Robert: That’s cool.

Jim: But, no, it’s really all about figuring out how to get the things you want in life, back to the whole birth thing. When we’re born, what’s the first thing that we do? We cry because we’re scared or we’re hungry or we need a diaper changed or something like that.

We figure out pretty early as human beings that when we sound off, we get people to react to us. What we do, what we say, how we act gets people to give us the things that we want. When you’re out trying to pick up somebody at a bar, I’ve been with the same woman 17 years so I don’t know what I’m talking about, but I think I remember when you used to use body language. There’s what you say. It’s how you look.

We’re always pitching. Everyone’s always pitching in life and in business. I’m pitching now. You’re pitching when you talk to your customers. Billy Mays was pitching when he sold on TV. There are so many varying levels of it. So the question is how do we learn from the people who are really good at it, and take those techniques and tactics and put it into our own life and our business situations and be more successful?

Robert: Fantastic. Is there a relative date for that to be released yet?

Jim: That book’s not going to be out until summer of 2011.

Robert: Right on. Yeah, because writing a book is a ton of work.

Jim: It really is. It’s really a lot of work, but it’s absolutely worth it. I’ll tell you, anyone out there who can get a book deal now, you should try and get one with a major publisher, it’s your big giant business card. It’s no longer important for you to have to presell your products or services or your consulting business anymore, because if people read your book, they call you and they say, “Hey, we read your book and I really like what you talked about here. We need help.” And you don’t have to sell them anymore. They just want to hire you. It’s a big difference. And you can raise your rates. And it’s just kinda cool to have a book.

Robert: [laughs] And a big sign, like a big cover on it too that you can stick with it.

Jim: Yes, and a big sign!

Robert: No, but really, it is a fantastic book. Jim, so to wrap up this conversation, I mean the book has a little metric ton of advice. I finished it in a sitting. I just couldn’t put it down. I’m like, “OK, what am I going to do?”

So then it was almost a matter of: “He’s given me so much that I could do. Which direction do I want to go in?” And I started doing it, though, based on the advice in your book. And so you’ve given additional advice during this conversation.

But for someone that’s sitting there, you know, again, a self-employed person watching this or listening to this on iTunes or whatnot, what is maybe just one more piece of kind of parting advice that you would give to these folks?

Jim: Parting advice. Well, we talked about the ego. We talked about the mode of doing it. I’m trying to figure what other big piece of advice I give people. Realize that it’s possible. Everybody knows a lot about something. I don’t care what it is you’re good at, or what it is that you know a lot about, or what you are passionate about, everybody knows a lot about something. You could be the world’s best iPhone application downloader. You could be really passionate about soda. You know, you could be really good at fixing fly fishing. Whatever.

My point is this, is that you have a knowledge or a skill that other people will either want to know about or want you to teach them how to do. And your devaluing your experience and the things that you know a lot about, even if you are the best video game player in the world, you are devaluing and not realizing the fact that other people want to know how to do that or be better at it, or teach you to do it.

So take the knowledge in your head and transfer it to the web. Put it down and come up with some type of course, or product, or service that other people can consume, and make it easy for those people to purchase it from you.

Now, you’ve probably already started doing this in the type of a blog. This is where a lot of bloggers start. They say, “Well, I know a lot about the green business. So I’m going to start blogging about green.” My wife’s got a great blog in the green business.

But where the disconnect happens is people just keep giving that information away for free. It’s great to build your brand. I’m not down on blogging. It’s great to build your brand, it’s great for search engine rankings. But at some point, when you are really an expert, you need to take it to the next level, which is taking the information out and packaging it in a way that allows people to buy.

And remember how people buy. People buy products and services in packages. You buy a box of cereal. You don’t buy a couple pieces of cereal. You don’t buy the concept of a cereal. Right?

Put it in something with bullet points and a price, and put it online and say, “If you want to know how to do what I know how to do, then I will charge you this much, and I will teach you how to do that.” And then make it real easy for people to buy from you.

Last piece of advice: Forget the PayPal button. You gotta get rid of the PayPal button. Get a merchant account. Actually take credit cards. The truth is that everyone has credit cards. Even though they may be broke, they still use them.

A lot of people aren’t used to PayPal, they don’t like PayPal, they don’t get the whole idea. And I know what you’re saying. Everyone’s watching, they are like, “Well, they can still use their credit card on the PayPal.” It’s different. There’s a big PayPal logo at the top and they have to down there…it’s different. I’m telling you, it needs to be just like when they go to Amazon, or just like when they go anywhere else, just a regular credit card transaction.

So if you do those things, what you are going to find is that people are going to go, “Oh, he does that, or she does that, and I need that. And they’ve made it real easy for me to give them my money.” And then you have a sale. And then you have a business. And then you can start building a business around the lifestyle we talked about in the beginning, which was your lifestyle. What do you want? Right? If you want to work 20 hours a week, then you should be building a business that allows you to get there, not the other way around.

Robert: Fantastic advice. So, Jim Kukral. Marketing guy, author, speaker, entrepreneur. Thank you very much for your time and just the ton of advice that you’ve given during this conversation. Much appreciate it, sir.

Jim: Hey, it’s my pleasure. Glad to be here. And let me know when this is up. And everyone who’s out there, if you buy a copy of the book, I hope you enjoy it. Actually, I know you’ll enjoy it. And thanks very much. Anytime.

Robert: Right on. Bye-bye, Jim.

Jim: All right. See you.

Robert: Hey, it’s Rob Dempsey again. I hope you really enjoyed that interview with Jim. I mean the amount of actionable advice that he gives for self-employed folks like you and is really just unparalleled.

And again, Jim’s biggest message is that when you are building a business, you can’t be afraid to do something that could get you a lot of attention. And once you have that attention, turning those folks into customers.

And to help you do that also, with Life of the Freelancer, I am starting to create a series of products. There are two things that I’m doing. Number one is these workshops. So these are a combination of video, audio, and text, like workbooks with checklists and things of that nature.

My first one is: Becoming Successfully Self-Employed, and that’s up at LifeoftheFreelancer.com. Up on the store you’ll find that.

I’m also creating a series of how-to videos for very specific issues that I’ve encountered in my 10 plus years of working for myself and that the people I am interviewing have identified as well.

So take Jim’s advice. Buy the book “Attention”. Get those people in the door. Check out Becoming Successfully Self-Employed at LifeoftheFreelancer.ocm, and start making this stuff happen for you. As Jim says, you can absolutely do it, you just gotta get out there and do it.

So I’m Robert Dempsey at Life of the Freelancer, and I will talk with you later.

Do Everything With Love

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:00:00 +0000

Doing things with love means sticking with them no matter what happens, because there is more driving you than something you can put your hands on. Now don’t worry, I’m not about to go hippie on you here, well, at least not too much.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Interview with Doublethink President Garrio Harrison

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:00:00 +0000

Garrio Harrison is the President and media strategist of Doublethink. He shares the secrets to his current success in our interview.

You can find links to all of Garrio’s online goodness at his site GeorgeAndre, and connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Announcing The Becoming Successfully Self-Employed Workshop

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 29 Sep 2010 19:00:00 +0000

All the details are in the video below, or you can skip all that jazz and go right to the workshop page.

Click here to view the embedded video.

This is the first of the workshops I’m producing based on my 10+ years experience working for myself (and landing in some very deep holes) and the 100+ interviews I’ve been fortunate enough to do so far. So many freelancers to speak with, so much time to do so

Who Is This For?

Becoming Successfully Self-Employed is for those of you who are wanting to start a freelance career, or are just starting out. While those of you who have been freelance for a number of years may pick up a thing or two, this one is for my peeps just getting into it.

Interview with Programmer, Rubyist, Surfer, and Father Anthony Eden

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:00:00 +0000

Anthony Eden is a programmer, rubyist, surfer, father, speaker, and much more. He is the founder and creator of DNSimple and PillowTalkr,and a co-founder and CTO of chi.mp.In short, he’s a super busy guy cranking out applications, now, from the south of France where he and his family reside (yes, we all hate him for it.)

Learn more about Anthony and get linked to all of his online goodies at Anthony.mp.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Humanizing Business – with Chris Brogan

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:20:17 +0000

Chris Brogan is a powerhouse in the new media space. He charges Fortune 100 and 500 companies lot’s of money for his time, and for good reason – he’s been in the game for a long time, knows what he’s talking about, practices what he preaches, and his results speak for themselves.

Chris took 30 minutes out of his day to speak with me and to offer insight and advice on where new media is going, and how to take advantage of it. Rather than asking him for the tactics though, we discussed his thoughts on what he calls the “humanization of business,” and it’s impact on media and our lives.

Take a listen to what Chris has to say, and then let me know what you think in the comments below.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Prefer to read the entire thing? Here’s the full transcript.

Transcript

Robert Dempsey: Hey everybody, this is Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer, and I am speaking today with Chris Brogan. Chris, how’s it going?

Chris Brogan: I’m the best I’ve ever been.

Robert: Awesome. So Chris, I’ve been preparing for this interview for a bit, because I’ve been trying to figure out, what is it that I can ask you? And first of all, I am going to link to all your stuff in the introduction, because it would take me, I think, just five minutes to even list out all of the stuff that you are into.

But I’d like to start off with, really, how…and I’ve read the “About” page on ChrisBrogan.com and all of this kind of thing. But how would you describe what it is you do to other people?

Chris: Mostly I just tell people I’m a typist. If they don’t take that for an answer, I do a few different things. I run a business called New Marketing Labs, which is a new media marketing agency for bigger companies—Fortune 100, Fortune 500 types. And then on the other side, I’m just now launching something called Human Business Works, which is an online education and mentoring and community platform for small businesses—solo to, you know, 10-20 or so.

And so on one side I’m doing strategy and execution type work, and on the other side I’m actually doing education work, wherein which I have facilitators for different businesses.

In the meantime, somewhere in between that, I’m incubating a couple other things, and/or it looks like I’ll be unveiling a small blog network, a blog content network, pretty shortly, although very small, not like one of these everybody join and we’ll all be rich together. Just kind of a cluster of blogs I like.

Robert: Right. So talking about Human Business Works and that kind of small business incubation. And I’ve seen that the site is starting to come out. I think I hit the page before anything was there. So just really talking about all of the things that you are into.

So there’s a lot of talk out there of, OK, you gotta specialize, and then there is the complete other side which is like, no, don’t specialize. And so because you are into a number of things, is there really a common theme that goes throughout all of them that really gets to the core of what it is you are trying to do?

Chris: Sure. I would say there are a couple of common themes. It’s a great question, by the way, Robert. I think that sustainable relationship-minded business matters to me. I think making business that helps people sort of live on their own human terms matters to me.

So, for example, we are in this economy where, in the US, it’s 9.9% unemployment all over. In some places, say up in Michigan, it’s 20-something percent. In Minnesota it’s hovering around 10% or so. And I think that at the same time we’re having these problems with finding work, we’re also accidentally mistaking jobs for work and thinking of that single unit of measurement as the only way that people can make a living and have the life that they really want.

And I’m not one of these make money online types. I’m not one of these, you know, “You too can get rich”. But I am somebody who thinks that there is a lot of people who deserve to sort of live life on their terms and have a business that wraps around what they believe in with all their heart. Because I think if we work from passion, and if we work from sustainable business mindedness, we’re just going to have a better sense of it.

So I guess the minor themes that go through everything are sustainable relationship minded business and also being helpful. Because, to me, I think at the core of any successful business is that desire to be helpful and to make it sustainable, ere go profitable for both sides.

Robert: And is that kind of what has led you now to this point of doing Human Business Works? Because I mean that’s right at the core of what you were just speaking about.

Chris: Yeah. So with a lot of my projects, I do something where I experiment and do stuff on my own, then I execute and make it a business. And then I try to extend it into a community and I try to learn how to have other people work and learn and do thing similar, because that might be of value to them.

So Human Business Works, in a way, is an offshoot of some of the things I’ve learned over the last few years that I figured I could help and educate and give back. It’s also a way for me to extend and expand myself, because I’m finding other facilitators.

So, for example, I’m going to be launching a nonprofit community through Human Business Works, and that’s through somebody who is much smarter and much more into the nonprofit world than me. And I’ll just help with the marketing, but that person facilitates and kind of keeps that community alive.

I’ll be doing one for business writers. I’ll be doing one for real estate. So in every one of these I’m going to have someone who kind of embodies that to me, and/or they’ll be the facilitator. They’ll kind of keep that project rolling. And I’ll just sort of add my little glossy filling to the top of it or something, like a good cinnamon roll.

Robert: Well, good cinnamon rolls are good. Do you ever go to Cinnabon, and those things are like as big as your head? Oh no, you are in Boston, right? Are you in Boston?

Chris: I am.

Robert: Right on. And do they have Cinnabon where you are?

Chris: They do. We actually have that, paved roads, and sometimes cable television.

Robert: Oh, hey, good stuff. So you got the whole bit in Boston there. I’ve been to Boston. It’s a really cool town.

So now, you just also had PodCamp for, did I see, the fifth year?

Chris: Yeah. PodCamp Boston just had its fifth year, and we’ve had over 110 or so events all over the world. But this is the fifth one of the founding location, and that’s sort of our flagship one. So that went on this weekend, put on by Michelle Wolverton [sp] and some people like Ellen Mercano [sp] Lois Ardido [sp], Steve Sherlock—all these people helped. And I’m just a figurehead at this point. So I just show up like a big fat man and go, “Heyyyyy!” and then leave.

Robert: Talk to the people, wave a little bit, and then go about your business?

Chris: Kiss the babies and do that sort of a thing.

Robert: Right on.

Chris: But to talk a little bit about that event, I mean it’s not necessarily just about podcasting. What we’re trying to do is sort of spread the fact that everybody has something that they can share. Everybody has a network that they should work on extending and building into. And everybody has offerings that they could really bring to the table so that we can do a better exchange of information, a better exchange of ideas around likeminded things.

And I think that what was exciting this year is I think that message went through better than it ever had in any of our previous experiences. And I really got the feeling that people were going to leave that event having made relationships that they didn’t have before, and to focus the tools that we teach at PodCamp on things that are much more of their passion.

So, for example, The Life of the Freelancer, you know, you would have gathered with other people who think it’s really cool to kind of grow and develop the freelance world. Those kinds of happenings were happening at PodCamp. And so I’m really excited for where people take that next.

Robert: Right on. Actually, I’d like to take this conversation back to something you said, because I think it’s very pertinent for folks that are watching this interview. You are talking about people kind of working on their own terms and working in human terms.

And so, without getting to preachy and up on a soapbox, so I’ve done college, I did the MBA, and I saw the mentality of a lot of people in that. People wondered, “Rob, why the hell are you doing that when you have your own thing going on?”

But it seems, and a number of people agree with me, that things are set up almost kind of factory style, where you go to college, you get the job, you work there for some number of years, you retire, etc. And all of that has kind of come to a major grinding halt, especially in this economy. And so more and more people are finding self-employment, whether forced into it or otherwise.

But really, it seems like what it’s coming down to is people want more freedom. They do, as you said, work on their own terms. So, for instance, I cannot see doing anything other than what I’m doing, because I want to see my daughter grow up. I want to spend time with my wife. I want to travel. I want to have that opportunity, as you said, experiment with different things without being kind of hemmed into this box.

So can you maybe elaborate more on some of your ideas around those thoughts?

Chris: Sure. So, I agree with you. I think that there’s a lot of this kind of space that’s around us that says, “You will do this, then you will do this, then you will show up here. You will get the house, the picket fence, the dog. You’ll start spawning children. You’ll do this thing in this order.” And that’s just sort of the reality that we’ve been taught all along. And that’s actually the reality the public school system is set up for, and actually, what college is set up for, for the most part.

So I think that there is a lot of gravity and force keeping us thinking that’s the way we should get it done. At the same time, this time is just as opportune as it was in the 1800’s and the early 1900’s when people saw work all around them and not jobs all around them. They saw opportunities to sort of stick their stake in the ground and do things their own way.

There’s a risk at this because there’s just too many little people plucking at stuff, and there’s a risk, with too many single entity jobs, that there’s no mass, so you can’t really do as much as you used to be able to do with, say, a factory.

I mean a factory is a way to concentrate a lot of work into one place, and it’s a way to sort of up your output by that. You know, there is a lot of economy of scale of having a widget go from here to there that gets lost when you disassemble and sort of spread all over.

So there are things that are good about factories. There are things that are good about having clumps, and mass, and size. What I think, though, is that the new way of working sort of allows for a velocity that wasn’t there before. It allows for an alliance and then a breakup, and an alliance and a breakup that doesn’t happen in typical corporations, because corporations are sort of set amongst…one of the things they value the most is predictability. And one of the things that we are sort of striving for, as humans, is unpredictability.

We like certain things to be predictable. We like to know the floor is going to be solid every time we step on it. We like to think we are going to get fed every day. But beyond that, I mean we want to sort of be challenged by new ideas, and we want our integrity to matter, and we want our families to matter.

And, you know, the number one and two things that people think about is their integrity and/or integrating their work with their family. And the number one and two things that work doesn’t allow for quite often are those two things.

I stole that from Stan Slap’s book: “Bury My Heart in Conference Room B”, but I think it’s a really important point, because I think that’s the real crux of the issue.

Robert: So having been in business for a number of years, and now you have a rather larger audience out there and whatnot, and you are working with these bigger companies. So again, going back to what I was kind of taught in my MBA, and the hearing what you are saying and knowing that you are walking into these companies.

And so, for instance, I remember hearing Gary Vaynerchuk speak at one conference, and people are like, “Gary, what do you say to these big CEOs when you go into these companies?” And he’s like, “Well, sometimes they listen to me, sometimes they think I’m totally full of crap when I start talking to them about actually listening to customers, or engaging, or whatever.”

I don’t want to put you on the spot too much and then you not like me, but how well received is this message when you are bringing this into large companies? I mean are they really trying to shift their way of thinking out there to being more, like, really people oriented, whether it be their employees or their customers?

Chris: So there’s a few things to answer there. One of the reasons that I’m a little more successful at it is that I have enterprise background. I have experience in real big companies. My job in wireless telecomm was essentially to spend a lot of time talking to real big companies—the AT&T, the Southwest Bell and all those companies, back when there was, and saying, you know, “Here, CEO guy, this is what I’m telling you.” And also, at the same time, “Here, chief engineer. This is what I’m saying.”

And at the same time, because I was a technical guy there, I was a project manager, but also a guy underneath the floorboards and could really talk all the way down to the bits. And so I have that background. And so when I talk my message to big corporations, I understand the flow. I understand that there is a long lapse time between “Let’s do it” and legal, and all those things that have to happen. So integration is tricky in the enterprise world. So I’m a little successful there because I just have the background.

Two, it’s not like companies are coming me to me going, “Gosh, Chris, we really need to be more human.” They are getting a lot of varied messages, and one of them, “We’re told this social media crap is selling stuff better and we want to sell more stuff.” And I say, “Great. I love selling stuff. Here’s how we’re going to do it.”

Or, if they say, “This is cheaper than what we were paying for marketing,” I go, “I love that, because I will cost you one zero less than whatever your marketing was using traditional mainstream.” And, of course, I get the sale.

But what I’m really doing is I’m showing them…David Zinczenco, the guy who founded Men’s Health Magazine, has a story about six-pack abs. If he doesn’t write the phrase, in some form or another, “six-pack abs” on the cover of the magazine, that magazine’s sales are lowered by like 38%.

If he puts in it, “Great diets for improving your six-pack abs,” and it’s really just a diet thing where he’s written the words “six-pack abs” in the title, he’ll sell plenty of magazines.

That’s me. I go in and I say, “Yeah, social media is cheap,” and then I tell them what they really need to know. Or I say, “Yeah, you have to do it because all the kids are doing it,” and then I tell them what they really need to know. Because ultimately, it’s a gateway experience. They see me as whatever they thought they needed, and then I try to convince them and communicate them over to what they really need.

But also, I cheat a little bit Robert. I only go on calls where the people actually have a sense that that’s what they want to do. I’m not in the convincing business. I’m not a proselytizer. You either are on my boat or you are not on my boat. It’s OK.

Robert: Right on. And so, that brings up something that I was…I did follow your blog for quite some time. And it looked like…Well I’ve seen some of your comments back to people, where they get on you for little nit-picky things, and I’m like, you know, “This guy’s being a freaking troll. What the hell?”

But it seemed that, at one point, like, on your blog, and I don’t know if this was kind of the turning point where you started getting like a much larger audience or not, but you seemed to be kind of upset at one point where people’s expectations of you seemed to change or something. And you kind of pulled back a little bit, and you are like, “All right, people. Things have to change here a little bit. I can’t be as accessible, just because my time…” Well, you have the whole list of stuff that you are doing, and speaking, etc.

And so, I mean can you talk maybe a little bit about that as well, where there was this kind of, maybe, shift in expectations and your handling of that, as well?

Chris: Sure. Thank you for that question. So there was a really recent NPR piece that I wished I had paid a little bit better attention to, because I didn’t know I was going to like it. You know, you are just kinda driving along, you are half listening, and you go, “Oh! That’s pretty useful!” And then there is no reiteration of what you just heard.

So they were talking about the fact that we went from following celebrities around about their bigger exploits, to following celebrities around about their smaller exploits. And then we went on to learn that we’d have just as much fun following normal folks around about their exploits.

And this is sort of what this Internet celebrity is like. I mean I’m an average, normal dude. I pay someone to put my pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else. But, at the same time, I’m at a Storyland in New Hampshire with my kids yesterday, and as we were getting off the train, my little boy and I, the woman behind me goes, “Excuse me, are you Chris Brogan?” And I was just like, “Wow, this is just getting creepy!”

Robert: [laughs]

Chris: I mean, she was lovely, it was just that sort of feeling where I’m like, “Holy cow!” You know, I get that a little bit more often.

So the radio report was saying that nobody really prepares you for Internet fame. No one says, “This is what’s going to be cool about it. This is what stinks,” blah, blah, blah.

So what I was having was people were feeling a certain level of entitlement, I feel, to more than, say, my blog access or whatever. They were feeling like, you know, “I can’t believe you don’t do X for me,” or, “I can’t believe you don’t do Y for me. Seeing as you already do all this stuff for free, how come you are not doing this?”, or etc.

So what I kind of had to do was sort of redraw, and that’s one of the you probably are pointing to, is one called “Redrawing”, wherein which I was saying, “I can’t answer every single email by myself. I have contact forms. Please use the form and I’ll get back to you even faster than normal.”

I mean when you connected to me, Robert, it was just a couple of days. It wasn’t horrible and overblown. It was personal and personalized, and I tried to keep a human connection to it. But, it’s not the same.

And people will say, “Why do you use auto follow on Twitter?”, not to get totally into the weeds of the technology. And I’ll say because I’m followed by an extra 600 or so new people every single day. If I took one minute to evaluate every single profile, that’s 10 hours. So I don’t really have 10 hours to decide every day who should I follow or not. So I follow them all and I delete the losers. I delete people who want to sell me foreign exchange trading software. And what’s the other one? The Trump Network. Evidentially, I really should join the trump network according to Twitter.

So I think that in my growth, the other thing I wanted to show was, I’m pioneering a lot of what’s going wrong with social media, like when is too much? And so the other thing I want to show is, here’s how I pulled back and here’s what I think we all can learn from it, should you find yourself in a situation where you have 158,000 followers or whatever.

Robert: Right on. But you are happy, right, today with everything? Everything’s cool.

Chris: Oh, I’m happy most days. And to your question about angry Chris Brogan, the other thing I wanted to point out is that I am human, and there are emotions, and that anger is an emotion. And I would say that it’s amazing how we try to sterilize so many things in business. Like, we disallow for passion unless it’s business passion. We disallow for, you know, the idea of love. I mean, my God. If people use the word “love” in business, you’re a freak, unless, of course, you are famous like Tim Sanders, who wrote the awesome book “Love is the Killer App”.

So I think that it’s…you know, my part of the goal is just to keep beating back the fact that we are all people. And another thing is people who didn’t grow up online the way I did. I was a digital kid. I was on modems and stuff back in the ‘80s. I was on Bolton Board Services back when, you know, 1,200 baud was awesome.

If you don’t grow up being part of that digital culture, you forget there is a human on the other side of the line, so you act like a real jerk sometimes, not realizing that you are impacting emotion. And so, I try to combat that one a lot as well.

Robert: Right on. Yeah, it’s always funny. So I used to go to a lot of marketing seminars for like AMA, and not to slam any of those folks, but it was like marketers selling to marketers. And people were always asking, “Well, what are the rules of social media?” And it’s like, “Well, what are the rules of us sitting here talking with each other?” Only, you have to be more cognizant of what you are doing. Because if you are an ass, you know, it’s like not only will we know, but it’s like everybody is going to know.

So yeah, very interesting. So now, is that what your second book is going to be about? I know you are writing a second one, I think with Julian again?

Chris: Julian Smith and I are writing…it’s my third book. It’s my second with Julian. In between I wrote “Social Media 101”. The book with Julian, we haven’t really divulged too much of the detail, but it will be about part of what I said in the intro: how do we experiment? How do we execute? How do we build that into something?

And we both are kind of plucking through the question of: What’s a repeatable way of…How do you turn an idea into an executable idea, and then how do you turn that idea into success? And then, how do you branch that idea out even further?

And I think it’s sort of self-improvement/personal development meets business development, because in our mind, they are very closely linked, even if you use the word “business” loosely for anything. It could be for church groups for all we care.

Robert: Gotcha. So, now looking at things on the grand scale. And, you know, the current state, like, with social media and business, with where you see things going. So I’m getting the feeling, and please tell me if I’m wrong, that we’re kind of going back to, again, putting the people back into business, putting, as you said, that human side back on what it is we do.

I’ve heard a number of people say that we’re kind of in this big transitionary period. For instance, I love what social media has done to businesses now, where it’s like, you know, you can’t just be some jerk company running over people, because lots of people are now going to know about it. They are going to talk. They have a voice . The technology is there.

As you said, right, you are a typist. You put out a lot of information. A lot of people can have a voice. So do you feel that we are in this kind of transitionary period, maybe societally? Generally, where do you see things kind of moving? What direction do you see things moving in?

Chris: So yes and no. So what I think is, and I Tweeted about this the other day, just sort of this thought of, the real revolution is fleeting. It’s the after party, where we think we’re still having a revolution, that goes on for a long time.

If you look at the ‘60s, there were a lot of people who really felt like they had this movement on the go. And they really were going to change society. And then companies and government and everything kind of co-opted that and used it for ad campaigns, and used the trappings of it for what they need to do.

And I would say that we’ve done that even faster with social media. I think the revolution has already come and gone, and I think that we’re dealing with the after effects of that now. I think that where we do go with it, I think, will be: how do we weaponize it? How do we execute on it? How do we actually do something with it?

And I think that, you know, it’s not too late. It’s not like you can’t start using the tools or anything like that. But as you are just getting into whatever, I think that the Hype Wave, the Gardner Hype Cycle, for example, is floating off now, and I think we’re now getting into the “Now do something” phase.

I, for one, am excited about it. For example, I pitch a lot of email marketing because I think that people are like, “Oh, Twitter’s neato and Facebook is neato”. I can cite one example of stats where 93% of people, individuals 18 and older, have an opt-in daily relationship with a brand versus 15% on Facebook, and versus 4% on Twitter.

So if I have 93% in email or if I have 4% in Twitter, which tool should I use if I am a smart marketer? So I just think that the revolution is over. And you can still come and be part of the aftermath of it, but I think the sort of up-curve of “Gee whiz and Golly!” I hope is gone.

Robert: Right on. So you are into a lot. Have you really found what it is that you want to do, or do you feel that, as people, we never really find that one thing, we just keep doing cool stuff?

Chris: I just keep working on…See, I try to think of myself more like what a movie producer would think of themselves as, or as a record producer or something. I guess I’m trying to make unitive, interesting experience happen. I’m trying to make execution of something happen in a package.

And outside of that package, I can then go create another next something. So New Marketing Labs is now two years old, and I feel like I nailed it. I feel like I did really well. We hit really good business numbers. We work with so many huge brands.

And, you know, there are very few new media marketing agencies out there that have the playlist that I do. And whether or not I helped any of those companies make billions is a whole ‘nother issue. I sure didn’t, but boy, it was fun.

And with Human Business Works, I’m in a whole new package. I am on the opposite side of that package. I’m dealing with, like, you know, plumbers who could give a rat’s ass about what their clout score is, who just need more plumbing gigs.

And what’s after that? I don’t know. I have a few things. I have a peer driven social platform, wherein which it takes advantage of the fact that we’re all having crappy economies and we don’t necessarily want to buy everything, so there’s things we might want to share. And so I have some ideas in that arena.

And man, I really, really want to create another Groupon, or another Daily Candy, or some crap like that, and someone give me a couple hundred million. So I’m shooting for that, too, but we’ll see.

Robert: Right on. So if you have been listening to this interview and you want to hand Chris a few hundred million dollars to do some work, you know, make it happen.

Right on. So Chris, again, thank you for your time and speaking with me today. And just to wrap up this interview…and then, please don’t hang up…but to wrap up this interview, for someone that’s watching this, so I know that you’ve been at this for a long time. I loved your Overnight Success series. Nothing, I think, is gained without hard work and patience, and just being out there and kicking ass as much as possible.

So for someone that’s watching this that’s becoming self-employed, thinking about becoming a freelancer, what advice would you give? Just something that you want to make sure that they absolutely leave this conversation with.

Chris: Wow. So if you have a choice on whether or not you are going to be a freelancer, don’t just leap. I’m so baffled by how many people think that’s how we all did it. Like we just said, “You know, I have a job, I was paying for my bills and taking care of my wife and kids, and I just thought I’d just quit and see how I did.”

That’s crazy. That results in divorce and living in cars. Make a plan. Achieve escape velocity. Start looking at ways that you can start supplementing your money and having your existing company or some side project start to seed fund your new idea as a freelancer. So that’s my first one, is achieve some escape velocity. Don’t just leap off the bridge.

Second, the best successes are from people who really didn’t have any good model to work from, so don’t wait for people to come and knight you and put their hand on your shoulder and say, “You may now go be a freelancer.” No one is coming. No one is coming to save you. Do it your damn self.

But, find lots of mentors. There are lots of free an inexpensive mentors out there. There are these personal MBA programs all over the place that all exist from the fact that there is such an abundance of material that you could learn from, that as long as you had to do the next step of learning.

Here’s what we do wrong. We read books; we don’t read books and then apply what we learned in the book. I think the book “Attention!” by Jim Kukral is an incredible book. I think that “The Referral Engine” by John Jantsch is a really good book.

If you worked on those two books for the 33% of your day where you are out finding new business, you’d kick it! But people don’t. They are like, “Yeah, I read that.” That’s great. I see it a lot in Twitter because of my books. So they are like, “Yeah, I read ‘Trust Agents’, now I’m going to read ‘Engage’, or now I’m going to read ‘Crush It’.”

And I always write back: “Thank you for reading it. What did you do different after?” So that’s my other big piece of advice.

Robert: Fantastic. So, Chris Brogan. ChrisBrogan.com. Thank you very much for your time, sir. I very greatly appreciate it.

Chris: Thanks Robert.

Business Lessons From Tony Hsieh

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:00:00 +0000

A few years ago I got a chance to speak with Tony Hsieh, the CEO of Zappos.com, at The Big Summit in Orlando, Florida. During our 4 minute interview, I asked Tony what it took to build a great company. His answer is surprisingly simple, and in the video below.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go! Prefer to read the entire thing? Here’s the full transcript.

Transcript

Robert: Sorry about that. I have to be kind of close here. [laughs]

All right, so I am Rob Dempsey, CEO and founder of ADS, and I am here with a man that probably needs really no introduction—Tony Hsieh, CEO of Zappos. So Tony, thank you for taking a few minutes.

Now, I’ve had the great fortune of now hearing you speak twice, both at the Inc. 500 conference and here in Orlando. One of the things that you focus on is culture. So for the folks that didn’t have the fortune of hearing you speak a few times, why is it that you have such a…like that laser focus on culture?

Tony Hsieh: Well, I think part of the reason was because the previous company I was at, Link Exchange, the culture completely went downhill and I just didn’t want to make the same mistake again. The second reason is just as I’ve been learning more, reading more books, like, I mentioned “Good to Great” and “Tribal Leadership”.

What they found is actually what makes for great companies in the long term, in terms of financial performance, actually, one of the important ingredients is strong culture. So that’s another reason.

Robert: Right on. So, you had the pizza business. You had Link Exchange, which sold for a lot of money. CEO of Zappos, which sold for, again, a lot of money. So for those, kind of, budding entrepreneurs out there, what advice can you give them?

Tony: I would say just figure out what you are actually passionate about that you’d be passionate about doing even if you never made any money from it. And that’s what you should be doing. The good thing about that is, if you don’t make money, then you are still happy. But it also actually increases your chances of making money, because business that are run by people that are passionate about whatever the business is about tend to have a much higher success rate.

Robert: So really, just find what you are passionate about, go after it like crazy, focus on culture?

Tony: Yeah.

Robert: Any other little tidbits that you’d throw in there?

Tony: I’d say those are probably the two bigger things. You know, related to the passion thing is just having a vision that’s not just about money or market share, but it’s really about doing something…really, it doesn’t matter, just something that you’re passionate about and having that passion come through in everything your company does.

Robert: Right on. And the one question that I wanted to ask you, also, in there was, a lot of people that I talk to, they work for really large companies that don’t have such a great focus on culture like you all do at Zappos. And the companies have kind of lost their way in terms of how they treat their employees. You know, they become numbers instead of people; they’re not team members.

And so for the companies that have kind of lost their way in terms of connecting with their people, is there any advice that you can give for helping them to reconnect?

Tony: Yeah, just talk to your employees. Ask them what would make them happy.

Robert: Right on. And help them fulfill, really, their goals and not just the goals of the company?

Tony: Yeah, definitely.

Robert: Awesome. Cool. Well hey, Tony Hsieh, thanks very much for your time, man. Appreciate it.

No More Excuses – Just Launch It

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:00:00 +0000

This past weekend I attended an awesome event named Startup Weekend Twin Cities. In less than two days, I helped build and launch Polywiks, the brain child of Jeffrey Miller. In addition to Jeffrey and myself were Ben Peirce, Scott Scanlon, Adam Fanslau, and Don Hanson. Though we didn’t win it was a ton of fun, and 12 teams including ours launched products, in less than 3 days.

Check out the video below to find out why you now have no more excuses holding you back from launching your business.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Interview with Developer, SEO and Social Media Consultant Cody Swann

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 23 Sep 2010 15:00:00 +0000

Cody Swann is a developer, SEO and social media consultant, retired body builder, and failed Gator football player. In addition, he’s an awesome guy that’s learned a lot of lessons for getting customers and getting known, and he shares them in our interview.

You can find Cody working on his business Gunner Technology, writing on his blog, or sharing goodness on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Interview with Tech Consultant, Curator, and Writer Patrick Rhone

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:00:19 +0000

Patrick Rhone is a Technology Consultant based in Saint Paul, MN. He is the proprietor of Machine Methods – a firm that assists individuals and micro-businesses get the best out of technology, with an Apple Macintosh focus. If you have a need for fast Mac troubleshooting and support, at affordable rates, he’s your guy. You can find him at http://machinemethods.com or on Twitter at @machinemethods (company) or @patrickrhone (personal).

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

You’ll Wish You Had His Job – Interview With Dan Birlew

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:00:00 +0000

Dan Birlew is an author and video game expert who has been writing official, published video game strategy guides since 1999. His original career goals included acting and directing. Dan is one of those guys who’se job you wished you had – he plays video games and writes guides about them. As you’ll find out on this interview, there’s a bit more to it than that.

Learn more about Dan and the guides he’s written, and then connect with him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

The Man Of Cosmetics, Chris Dunn of ChriVic

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:00:13 +0000

Chris Dunn is building his cosmetics empire in the UK by offering brand-name products at affordable prices, undercutting the grossly over-priced competition. Starting with a market stall, Chris and his wife expanded to a succesful eBay store, and has his eyes on opening a retail location right in the middle of tbe big boys. He’s eager to compete, and on the road to doing so.

Learn more about Chris’ company Chrivic, or if it strikes your fancy, pick up something at his eBay store. As with any good entrepreneur, he’s on Twitter too.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Attention! This Book Will Make You Money

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:00:49 +0000

Jim Kukral’s new book, Attention! This Book Will Make You Money: How to Use Attention-Getting Online Marketing to Increase Your Revenue (Amazon aff link), has the content to back up a bold title. In Attention!, Jim provides a ton of actionable examples that self-employed folks like you can use to get generate more attention for your business.

Many of the people I speak with built their business on word of mouth marketing. The first step is get those raving fans that will spread the good word about you. Jim show you how to do it.

Here’s a quick video about the book:

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Got the picture for the blog post from MomGoesGreen.com, and thanks to Chris Brogan for recommending the book on his blog.

Interview with Toby Cryns – Rock Star and WordPress Extraordinaire

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:00:29 +0000

Toby Cryns was one of the first people I met at CoCo Coworking. He’s a super approachable guy who’se making it happen through networking, doing great work, speaking at blogging events, and helping co-found WordPress meetups. Learn more about Toby at his main website, his blog, or follow him on his themightymo or tobycryns Twitter accounts, and watch the interview to find out the reason behind the name.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

People Are Awesome

Robert Dempsey — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:11:51 +0000

Over the past 10 years I have lost faith in people many times over, only to have it restored by running into a few awesome people. With Life Of The Freelancer, I am even more fortunate. To date, I have interviewed more than 50 successfully self-employed people, and the advice they have given has been candid, actionable, and highly useful. These are folks that are here to help, and I am grateful for their time, so that I can provide that advice to you.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Belligerently Self-Employed Co-Working Evangelist – with Don Ball

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:00:12 +0000

The second person I met at CoCo Coworking in St. Paul was Don Ball. We hit it off as we are both very belligerent about being self-employed, and seeing coworking as part of the future of work.

Don is a digital strategist and partner at Polymer Studios, cofounder of CoCoMSP and UnSummit.org. He’s a super busy guy with a lot to teach. Find out more about Don using the links or stalking, I mean following him on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

How to Launch A Freelance Editing Career – with Anna Torborg

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:00:01 +0000

There are many ways to launch a freelance career. One of the best is to take the knowledge and experience you’ve built up working at a full-time job, and strike out on your own once you have clients.

When she’s not running 193-mile relay races from one end of Minnesota to the other, Anna Torborg is an acquisitions editor with a single client – Snowbooks. She’s gearing up to get more clients and launch her freelance career. Find out how Anna discovered a need in the publishing world and is leveraging her experience and contacts to launch her business. For more from Anna, check out her blog, twelve22.org.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Securely Transitioning Into Freelancing – with Alexandra Franzen

How to Start Your Own Software Company – with John Gallagher

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:00:46 +0000

John Gallagher is building his dream application – a time tracking application for the Mac called Lapsus. Lapsus runs in the background, so no more clocking in or out, forgetting to start or stop a timer, or any of the other million annoyances of current time tracking apps. John started from nothing, teaching himself programming and marketing to make Lapsus, a 7-year-old idea, come to fruition.

Find out how John is turning his idea into a marketable software product

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Interactive Architecture, Technology, and Mad Science – with Scott Ahten

Crucial Steps To Starting Your Own Business

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:00:40 +0000

Starting your own business is much easier when you know the right steps to take. When they begin working for themselves, a lot of people do so without building a solid foundation – they just start. I know I did, and I my first attempt landed me in a mountain of debt.

Don’t let that be your fate my friends.

Here’s a checklist for starting your own business that will help ensure you’ve got the initial bases covered.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Make It Happen

Put the lessons you learn here into action along with many others in the Becoming Successfully Self-Employed workshop.

Building Business On Buzz Alone – with Jonathan Kay

Robert Dempsey — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:00:42 +0000

Jonathan Kay has one of the coolest job titles – Ambassador of Buzz. As the AOB of Grasshopper, Jon has helped grow a business of large proportions without a sales force, purely by generating buzz in many forms. Learn how you can to in this interview.

Connect with Jon on Twitter or on the Grasshopper Group site.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

The Future Of Work – with Jeremy Neuner and Iris Kavanaugh

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:00:21 +0000

The future of work is a distributed workforce enabled by technology and new styles of management. Iris Kavanaugh and Jeremy Neuner tell us all about it.

Find out more about Iris, Jeremy, and NextSpace.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Find and Meet Others Like You At Freelance Camp

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:00:56 +0000

Sometimes as we self-employed folks are working away in solitary rooms of our houses, we need advice and help from others like us. Fortunately, there are entire events dedicated to helping the self employed. Freelance Camp is one such event.

Eric Marden introduced me to Shane Pearlman and Iris Kavanaugh, the peeps behind the excellent Freelance Camp, and we had a great conversation about it, along with discussing the issues that self-employed folks face, and how to overcome them.

Learn more about Shane, Iris, and Freelance Camp.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

How To Maintain Sanity When You Have Many Passions

Robert Dempsey — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:00:32 +0000

Until I read The Renaissance Soul: Life Design for People with Too Many Passions to Pick Just One by Margaret Lobenstein (Amazon aff link), I used to think I was crazy. Everyone would tell me that I had to get really good at one thing and stick with it forever. That’s never worked for me, and now I know why.

Click here to view the embedded video.

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Interview with Eric Marden of Xentek

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:00:28 +0000

Eric Marden is a veteran web developer, entrepreneur, and inspirational speaker. Going by the Twitter handle Xentek, and owning a company by the same name, for more than 14 year Eric’s been bending the interwebs and one and zeros to his will.

Find out more about Eric on his personal blog and on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Interview with Greg Pederson of Nsight Development

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:00:54 +0000

Greg Pederson is the owner of Nsight Development, a full service Ruby on Rails application development firm. Greg has been working for himself for a number of years after leaving his last large corporate job at Motorola. He’s taken a very deliberate approach to growing his company, and is now in the process of hiring on full-time employees to help him meet demand.

Find out more about Greg on the Nsight Development website and on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Freelance With A Family And Full-Time Job – with Matt Walker

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:00:01 +0000

I had the great opportunity and pleasure to speak with Matt Walker. Matt has a full-time job, a thriving 15-year-old freelancing business, and a large family. Matt has a ton of great advice both for those becoming self-employed and those working to make it highly sustainable.

Learn more about Matt on his website, on Twitter, or on Facebook.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Interview with Darrin Eden of Heavy Water Software

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:00:17 +0000

Darrin Eden is an ops guy building his company, Heavy Water Software, while living in Vancouver, British Columbia. He manages IT infrastructure for small and medium-sized companies.

You can contact Darrin via his company website, or on Twitter.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Freelance Marketing For Startups – with Anthony Richardson

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:30:11 +0000

Anthony Richardson, aka the Web Fugitive, is a freelance interactive marketing consultant who helps companies get more business with marketing. I had a chance to work with Anthony a number of times, and it was a great experience. There’s a lot of advice he provides in this interview to be prepared to take notes.

You can find Anthony on his website, and of course, on Twitter.

If you’re working for yourself, have Skype and a webcam, we want to hear your story! Send us a note so we can line up an interview. Also, sign up for our free newsletter for even more goodies!

Click here to view the embedded video.

Here’s the audio-only version for ya too.

Interview With Zach Inglis of London Made

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:30:48 +0000

For the first of many interviews with successful freelance entrepreneurs, I spoke with Zach Inglis, the founder of London Made, a UK-based web design and development firm.

You can find Zach online at his website, and on Twitter.

If you’re working for yourself, have Skype and a webcam, we want to hear your story! Send us a note so we can line up an interview. Also, sign up for our free newsletter for even more goodies!

Click here to view the embedded video.

Prefer audio? Here ya go!

Welcome To Your Freelance Lifestyle

Robert Dempsey — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:25:56 +0000

Welcome to the first day of your freelance lifestyle.

People quit their jobs all the time, and for many reasons. Some people have abusive bosses they need to get away from. Others seek to spend more time with their families, their friends, or traveling the world. Whatever the reason, going out on your own can seem like a scary proposition. However, a growing number of people are striking out on their own, despite the economy.

And they are turning out just fine.

There are good and bad ways to go about it however, and we can all learn from the lessons of those that have been there. And that’s what you’ll gain from this site.

And what about once you’re on your own – then what?

Well, you’ll need tools to help you find and keep clients, manage relationships, maintain your sanity, and more. And that’s also what you’ll find here.

This site will arm you with the tools to become a successful freelancer, if you so choose. We always have a choice, and this not one to take lightly. There will be ups, and there will be downs. There will be days you wonder what the hell you’ve done, and there will be days you may yearn to once again have that paycheck. And there will be days when you’re sitting in your happy place thanking the powers that be for giving you the courage to gain the freedom you have.

If you’re ready for this exciting and sometimes scary journey, we’re here to help you every step of the way.

Welcome to your freelance lifestyle. We’re glad you’re here.

Want more? Sign up for our free newsletter for even more goodies!

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Life Of The Freelancer

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