Michelle Ward – the When I Grow Up Coach – has built a successful career coaching practice very quickly by focusing on creatives and pricing her services to be affordable. Starting out by offering her coaching services on an ongoing basis, she’s branching out into eCourses, group coaching, and much more. In this interview Michelle talks about becoming a certified career coach, building a coaching practice while working full-time and getting married, and working with creatives.
Learn more about Michelle at her site When I Grow Up Coach, and connect with her on Twitter.
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Transcript
Robert: Hey there, this is Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer. And in this interview, I talk with creative career coach Michelle Ward. And Michelle, in the spirit of full transparency, is actually my career coach, my life coach, whatever you want to say. Basically, she’s helped me to really figure stuff out.
I first met her at a session with Alexander Franzen [sp], and I was immediately blown away by her really positive attitude, her good nature, and just really her vibrancy. In this interview, she talks about how she went through getting certified as a creative coach, why she charges what she does– very affordable rates, why she works purely with creatives, and much more. So, check out this interview with Michelle, and I’ll see you on the other side.
Hey, everybody, this is Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer, speaking with Michelle Ward, the When I Grow Up coach. Michelle, how are you doing?
Michelle: I’m good, Robert, thanks for having me. This is fun.
Robert: Hey, thanks for joining me. Now, I know what you do, and in the spirit of full transparency, I am one of your clients, and we got connected when you were Skyped into a session that Alexander Franzen, now a mutual friend our ours, did.
Michelle: Yes, yes.
Robert: But for the folks watching this video, they might not know what you do, so what is it, exactly, that you do?
Michelle: Well, as you mentioned, I’m the “When I Grow Up” coach, and I help creative people either devise the career that they think they can’t have, or discover it to begin with. So, I get a wide range coming to me that either say, “Oh my gosh, Michelle, I have to get out of this job, I don’t know where I’m going, I don’t know what else I want to do, but you have to help me find it. My soul is getting sucked out of me.”
Or else I have people that come to me and say, “I know exactly what I want to do. I just don’t see how it’s possible, and I need to start figuring out how this could work within the realm of my life, and start taking the steps to move forward and creating an action plan.”
And I deal with people in between. So that’s sort of the realm of how I help people, the services that I offer, and who I work with. And all the people that I work with are creative in one way or another, whether it’s by their ideas, or with their hands. So it’s exciting to work with those out-of-the-box sort of people, because I’m one of them, too.
Robert: [laughs] Excellent. Frankly, when I first heard the term, “life coach”, I think, OK, what the heck is that? It sounds, maybe a little hokey, maybe like, “What, I don’t have my life in order?” You know, blah, blah, blah. Obviously, I’ve turned that idea around, [laughs] that attitude around. Can you give an example of some things that life coaching entails?
Michelle: Sure. Absolutely. And I have to say that I had the same sort of reaction when I first heard about “life coach”, and it took me a while to get over that hurdle, and actually say, “Oh, I could be a life coach without being someone that is going to read someone’s tarot cards, or is going to use crystals in order to help somebody.”
And I had that “hippie-dippy” mentality, which did take me a while to get past and go, “Oh, I could help people. I could be the person that I needed when I was 26, 27, and knowing that I didn’t want to pursue acting as a profession anymore.” I had my background in musical theater, and my degree from NYU in musical theater, and I would not want to go see someone like that, and I could be that person, and kind of embrace that piece of it.
But, in terms of being a life coach, and I am someone that has been certified as a life coach, we’re really taught that the client is the expert in their own life. So, as a life coach, immediately, some people think, “Oh, I’m good at telling other people what to do. I’m going to be a life coach.” And that is so the opposite of who we are, and what we do.
We are here, instead, to withhold judgment, to withhold advice, to really help the client clarify for themselves, A, what is it that they want to do, and then, how can it actually happen? And by asking questions, you know, we’re taught to ask powerful questions, and we’re told to power listen, everything is power, and really be there for the clients, and support the clients in what they want to achieve, and hopefully allow them to see things in a way that they might not have seen before.
So, allow them to think for themselves a bit out of the box, and in a different direction than they might be used to, or they might have done previously, to get them where they want to go a bit quicker, a bit less painfully, and really help them along the way, and supporting them, and celebrating with them. I mean that’s all wrapped up in being a life coach.
Robert: Cool. So, you said you were certified, and I know that’s a long process. What does being certified entail?
Michelle: Yeah. Honestly, I think that the certification process is different, depending on the school that you go to, and there is a… I like to call them a union, of sorts, because that’s kind of the best way to explain it, that’s called the International Coach Federation. And they’re the ones going to the schools that are saying, “We’re going to certify life coaches”, and making sure that that’s regulated, that that’s in line with the things that they want to make sure are touched upon, and when you call yourself a certified life coach that you have training in the following areas.
And so, for me, I went to the International Coach Academy, which is actually based in Australia, and all of their classes are over the phone. So that sort of blew my mind. And as someone that lives in New York City, I just assumed when I knew I wanted to get certified that I would go find a place in New York City, and go sit in a classroom, and have a very traditional sort of learning environment. And it turned out that that wasn’t the case at all. And I had a lot of trouble finding a school that was in New York City that I could go to in person.
And since I work with my clients, right now, strictly on a phone or email basis, it was really great to get that learning environment totally over the phone, to be on the phone with people from all over the world. And because of how that school structured their classes, you could take it within six months if you just go at it fulltime with everything. Or, like me, you could take up to two years to complete your studies. They offer classes from 6:00 in the morning, until 11:00 at night. And you take them in whatever order.
So it’s still, like, 140 hours worth of classes. You have to be coached, you have to coach, I think it’s seven people yourself, you have to write a research paper. But, again, every school’s different. I liked the ICA because of the structure, and because of everything else that it involved. I knew I was getting really quality training.
Robert: Gotcha. Yeah, it sounds pretty rigorous.
Michelle: Yeah.
Robert: One of the things, too, that, at least from the client perspective, from my client perspective, that I was surprised about is, as you just mentioned, you’re living in New York City, and I think the rates that you’re charging, for what you do, I was surprised at what they are, frankly. Because you have traditional therapy, if you will, it’s like 100 plus dollars now. I mean, crazy amounts of cash. But your pricing is so that someone that is freelancing can really afford it. It’s very affordable and great stuff. So how did you arrive at the pricing structure that you have?
Michelle: It’s been a bit of a climb and a bit of something that I continuously look at. And to be honest with you, I’d be surprised if my rates stayed the same, like, after the first of the year. But I don’t see myself pricing my sessions so that I’m only working with executives, or businesspeople, or people that are on this different price point, I guess, because I love working with creatives. I love being able to…
I’m not looking for those businessmen Those aren’t the people that I like working with, those aren’t the people that I work with the best. And so I feel strongly that I wouldn’t want to price things out so that my people wouldn’t be able to afford it.
That said, I’m still a fairly new businessperson. While I have been coaching since 2007, when I started my certification, I’ve only been fulltime as a creative career coach since March. So it’s only been a little over five months at this point, and I’m starting to learn, “OK, how do I work best. What’s my limit?” Right now I’m working about 60, 65 hours a week. My plate is totally full. I’m not taking on any new clients until November at this point.
And so I have a feeling that the structure of my business is going to change. And I might start making group sessions more as a major part of my business so I could offer that lower price point, and then raise the private sessions
I definitely want to put products into my business. I’m about to announce an e-course that I’m going to be doing with a friend of mine, so that’s going to start at the end of October. It’s still one of those very organic, new sort of things, but I also feel strongly that coaching isn’t a one-off piece. And I get disheartened when I see coaches that are charging $250-$300 for a session, whether it’s an hour, whether it’s two hours, because I am very invested in the process, and I want to know that when I work with a client that they don’t feel that, “OK, I can only afford one session a month, if that. Or, I’m just going to call Michelle when I need a quick fix, and it’s going to be a one-off.”
I’m investing in coaching as a process, and I’m also investing in building a relationship with my clients, which is something, personally, that’s really important to me. Because that’s a really, really big part of why I do what I do. And I always say, I’m nothing, if not a relationship builder. And that’s where I get my energy and passion from.
I don’t want to just sort of know people on a one-off basis. I want to be able to say, “Here are the clients, and I’m helping them through their journey, and I’m able to see what they’re achieving.” So, it’s kind of all those things rolled into one. Complicated answer. [laughs]
Robert: No, that’s great. So, you said you’ve been coaching for a number of years, but then you just were off on your own, now, for about five months, a little more than that. What were you doing before you moved into this full self-employment?
Michelle: Yeah. I was setting myself up for full self-employment. Honestly. When I realized, back in 2007, when I was sort of in this limbo of, “I know I don’t want to pursue acting anymore, but there has to be something else that I could be passionate about doing.” And I was trying my darndest to find something stable, a.k.a. not freelancing, because, as someone who pounded the pavement as an actress, it was like, “OK, well, if I’m going to find something else, it had better be something that I have this job security and insurance and benefits, and blah, blah, blah.”
So I ended up enrolling in a career change course at NYU School of Continuing Ed, and I went in there with the idea of life coaching, but like I mentioned earlier, rejected it for, you know, me not being a hippie, and for it being entrepreneurial. You don’t have to be a life coach and be entrepreneurial, but that’s another subject for another day.
But I immediately was like, “No, this isn’t for me.” And the more I went through these different exercises, I put the pieces of puzzle together and went, “Oh, crap, you’re an idiot. This is what you’re latching onto, this is what you want to do.”
And I knew from being an actor, and also from doing real estate for about two years, where, even though I worked for a company with a commission on the job, I knew that I really, really needed a big safety net. I couldn’t say, “OK, I’m going to go be certified as a life coach, and go to my school, and get that training, and leave my job, and not make any money, because that is going to be me hitting the floor within the matter of a week. The money’s going to run out, it’s going to be pressure time, it’s going to be bad news.”
And at the time that I decided to go to school for life coaching, I was in a customer service-based job at a company. The job itself was OK. My manager was a nightmare. He was verbally abusive. I would literally start becoming physically ill, psychosomatically, when I was going to work. But then when I said, “Oh, I’m sick, I’m going to head home and work from home,” and I would leave the office, I would feel fine.
So, I knew I had to get myself into a stable job that I could clock in at 9:00 and clock out at 6:00, as opposed to having a Blackberry, and being on call 24/7, and traveling, which is what I was doing with that job. I needed a, if not warm, friendly, kind, wonderful environment, at least one that didn’t make me physically ill. And I needed to just have that sort of structure be what I’m doing in terms of getting certified and I’m building my business, and I honestly didn’t know how long it was going to take me.
But the very month I started ICA in my coaching classes, I started as an executive assistant at a financial consulting company. And so I sort of knew, “OK, this is where I’m going to be until I’m ready.” And within that time frame, I ended up getting engaged, I ended up getting married, and so school took longer than I thought, necessarily, it was going to.
But when I graduated in 2009, I knew, “OK, now I’m really putting the pedal to the metal, in terms of building my business.” And I knew I wanted to have a few months of my full-time salary in the bank so that I could feel that I had a cushion in terms of not pulling the trigger on plan B for six or seven or eight months. But at the same time, I also wanted to make sure I had a certain number of consultation calls coming in, and just that feeling that, “OK, people know you’re out there and that you exist, and you are going to get more people coming in to your business.”
So, finally, it was December of 2009, and I was looking at the clients that were coming in and realizing I didn’t have the time to coach them, and I was being held back because of my job, and I was getting a steady stream of consultation calls. And I looked at my husband and said, “I think when I get my bonus in March, I’m going to be good to go, and I’m going to give this a shot.” And he said, “OK, let’s do it.”
So that’s what I did. It took me two years and seven months, and now I’m at the point where I haven’t dipped into any of the money that I’ve saved, and I have a wait list till November, and it’s going awesome. Yeah. So that’s what I was doing until March, when I said, “OK, time for me to leave corporate America and branch out on my own.”
Robert: Awesome. That’s quite a build up, too, right? You said, like, two years and seven months. Was there any particular reason why you took, say, the executive assistant job as that transitionary job, if you will, versus some other type of job?
Michelle: Absolutely. Well, my background, while I was acting, was more sales stuff. My real estate job led into different sales positions, and those were just not working for me. I enjoyed working with clients and bringing that relationship-builder part into things, but I hated the pressure of being a salesperson, and not knowing when my next check was coming, and so on and so forth.
So, when that led into this customer service position, where I knew I wanted to capitalize on the customer service part of sales, but not have that sales piece, anymore, I really did enjoy that. I was just in a very toxic environment, in a company that just wasn’t doing well.
So I think the executive assistant made a lot of sense, because it was an easy transition for me to say, OK, I was an account manager at this place, but I also was in charge of calendaring, I was in charge of travel for my manager. I did these things that were executive-assistant-based. And I went to a few recruiters, and they seemed very positive that, “Yes, we could find you a job, and yes, you’re marketable as this.”
And I was told over and over again, “Oh, you won’t find a job in finance,” which I wasn’t necessarily looking for, but everyone said, “Oh, if you do, then that’s where the money is.” And so I knew that I wanted to make as much as I could while having an easy job, and I felt like being an executive assistant wasn’t going to be challenging, energy-draining sort of work. It was still going to be work, but it was going to be easy-ish work.
And the fact that this particular company was very adamant about not working overtime, about not giving the people that you supported your cell phone number, you are in at 9:00, you are out at 6:00, you have an hour for lunch, that they really wanted you to take– end of story. And so, those are all of the pieces. And I felt like I wasn’t going to make myself physically ill on a daily basis by being there. [laughs]
So those are all the pieces and what led me to, “OK, executive assistant makes the most sense.” Because I knew from the start that I was there, to leave. So, yeah, that all sort of added up for me.
Robert: OK. So, were you able to, or are you now able to use a lot of the same skills that you used in that job, also, for your business?
Michelle: Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh, and I guess…and this is one of the challenges I’m facing lately, is that I can do all the admin pieces of my job. I could be on top of the billing, and the scheduling, and the following up, and all of the pieces that I need as an entrepreneur and as a “solo-preneur”, as I like to call it. I’m a one woman band, right now. Because I can do all that, it’s become very difficult for me to pass that off.
And I know that my business is now very split, as to when I’m coaching, and when I’m able to focus on coaching and building that part of my business– writing articles, reaching out to people for guest posts, doing different business- building things and doing the admin stuff. So, while I was able to bring that piece into my business, I don’t necessarily want to be doing it. And I just hired a VA with real money. She was someone I was bartering with for a while, and I said, “OK, I think I’m paying you now.” And gave her, like, “OK, here’s my money.”
And she’s at yourcreativeally.com. Her name’s Sarah. We’ll see. She’s going to help me sort of keep track of what needs to happen and just help me with that admin piece. So, yeah, it’s helped, but it’s also kind of hindered, because I feel like, “Oh, I could do this stuff, why am I paying someone 40 bucks an hour to do it?” So, we’ll see. Yeah, scary.
Robert: Yeah. So then that will leave you more time, as you said, to build the business, a big part of which is, obviously, getting new customers, which, so far, you don’t seem to have much of an issue with. How have you been finding your customers? I was introduced to you via the session that Alexander Franzen did. Other than those types of things, is it those types of things that bring in a lot of customers for you? Or how do you go about it?
Michelle: It’s interesting. I don’t necessarily have a real big plan of attack or a real blueprint for marketing. When I knew that I had to build my business, when I was in a cubicle, it really limited me. And I embraced it instead of seeing it as a challenge. I’m like, “OK, well, what can I do in my cubicle when the manager isn’t looking, and when I don’t have any other work to do?” And I knew I wasn’t going to be able to go out there and network and meet people face to face, wasn’t going to be able to really travel or anything like that. I was going to have to sort of use social media to the best of my ability.
And thankfully…and it’s interesting, because I’ve always been someone that has enjoyed writing, but I realized, “This is what I’m going to have to do.” And I think I really ended up focusing a lot on my blog; Blogging continually, finding other people’s blogs, commenting on them. Taking a blogging e-course that’s actually being offered now – it’s Holly Becker of decor8blog.com offers a great course, called “Blogging Your Way”, where I ended up unknowingly being the one coach in a sea of creative people who want to either open up their own Etsy store, they’re designers, or something like that. And that gave me marketing that I didn’t realize I was getting when I went to the class; I just wanted to take a class about blogging.
I got on Twitter. I started learning about Twitter– how to use it effectively, who I needed to follow, and how it all works. So I’ve been blogging and tweeting for about two years, on average. And I just said yes to mostly everything. Someone wants to interview me for their blog? Yes. Someone wants to…Alexander– do you want to talk to the people in this seminar I’m giving about leaving their day job? Yes. Do you want to…
I got featured in Newsweek. There’s a whole video about me and being a life coach and what life coaching is, but it’s basically a video on me that I got because I did an interview for this girl’s blog. He’s like, “Oh, I saw you on Lola Lena [sp], of all places, and I thought you’d be good for this interview.” If someone wants me to do a guest post. OK.
So, it’s saying yes to everything that I could, getting my name out there as much as possible. I don’t know, I find that really honing in on what makes you authentic, and what makes you, you, and what makes you valuable, and owning it, and sort of bringing it wherever you go, whether it’s online or in person, I mean that, to me, as broad as that sounds, or as unspecific as that sounds, that’s been the key. Because if you’re able to keep this consistent tone and look, and really be able to say, “This is who I am. This is what you’re getting when you’re working with me,” and I’ve really taken pains to have my website reflect that, have my blog reflect that. I write all the copy on the website myself. So I want people to know what they’re getting when they work with me, and I think that’s been a really big way to get the wall down, and to make people feel like they already know what they’re getting before they even sign up to work with me. So, it’s all these pieces. Yeah.
Robert: Great. So, to wrap up this discussion. You’ve already given a lot of advice in there. Lots of big nuggets in there and whatnot. But for someone that’s considering, because I think there are a lot of people out there, that are trying to get over this hump. They’re like, “Oh, crap.” The same things you and I both faced, of, “OK, I want to do my own thing. I’m not sure.” There’s a lot of fear built up in there. What, maybe, one or two tips would you give to those types of folks.
Michelle: Oh, my gosh.
Robert: [laughs]
Michelle: Number one, find out what you want to do next. I think it’s really important to be very clear as to, what’s the next step going to be? And part of the reason I am so committed to the coaching process, and tell my clients, “I want you to be in this for 12 sessions.”
Because there’s nothing worse than rushing to the answer, or being desperate for the answer, and going, “OK, yes, I’ll do this. Let me sign up for this. Let me give these people my money, and let’s try to make this happen,” when it’s like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. Take a step back.’” I don’t want to say that there’s no rush. But if you take…for me usually, with my clients, 12 sessions is four months. A lot happens in four months. It’s only four months.
So, allow yourself the time and the space to, what I call, live in the questions, and really start figuring out, what are the questions? What could be the answers to the questions? Let’s sort of get my feet wet in different ways, let’s learn what I can, let’s talk to people, let’s get informational interviews, let’s see how this all applies to me and what makes the most sense in my life.
And then, once that’s a bit more concrete, it’s then committing to the baby steps. Because for me, being committed to doing something every day, even if you’re saying, “Today I’m only able to put up a new blog post. Today I’m only able to go on Twitter and find 20 new people to follow that are my people. Today I can only update this copy on my website.” Taking that time, allowing yourself that space to be OK with just doing one thing a day, or just taking 10 or 15 minutes.
I have one client who is working on a documentary. She wants to make all of these very short documentaries, and she’s committed to working 15 minutes every day. And usually, she does give it more time, but when she knows it’s only 15 minutes, she’s able to take herself off the hook. But 15 minutes is better than nothing, and at the end of the week, she’s usually given about two hours to the project, which is definitely not chump change.
So, sort of seeing it as not an all-or-nothing, not an “I need a free afternoon,” “I need to wait ’til inspiration strikes,” “I need to be on vacation.” Working within the parameters of your life, letting yourself just take whatever you can take from it, and moving forward in baby steps is, I feel, the best way to build yourself the strongest foundation that you possibly can.
I credit that as the key to my success, and why I was able to leave my job after two years and seven months and feel like I have the biggest safety net, and not have to tap into that money at all, and watch it grow, and have the business evolve into what I want it to be. And now, hopefully, move forward with the next piece of it. So, yeah.
[laughter]
Robert: Fantastic. Well, hey, Michelle Ward, When I Grow Up coach, thank you very much for your time today, I appreciate it. We’ll have to catch up again in the future to see how your business evolves over time as it grows.
Michelle: Anytime. Anytime. It’s going to be interesting. I do feel like group sessions and products and e-courses, that’s all going to play a part. I just don’t know how or when yet. So, we’ll see. Yeah. Feel free, check in any time.
Robert: Yeah. Well, we’ll definitely check in. Thanks again, Michelle.
Michelle: Great. Thanks, Robert.
Robert: All right. Bye-bye.
Michelle: Bye.
Robert: Hey, it’s Robert Dempsey again. Hope you enjoyed that interview with Michelle Ward. You can find out more about Michelle at whenigrowupcoach.com. You can also follow her on Twitter. There are going to be links to that on the post where this video is. If you’re listening to this via iTunes, got to LifeoftheFreelancer.com and just search for Michelle Ward. You’ll find the interview and you’ll be able to link to all of her good stuff.
You can also hear Michelle speak at the Women Entrepreneurs for Women Entrepreneurs webinar, the first that we’re going to have at Life of the Freelancer, on November 3. If you go to LifeoftheFreelancer.com, click on the webinar’s link, and you can sign up for free, and hear Michelle and three other fantastic women entrepreneurs speak on the issues that will really help women to be successful having their own businesses.
Now, some other stuff that we have at Life of the Freelancer to really help you to be successful freelancing, we have workshops, we have how-to videos, and a ton of other content. And you can also get all the goodness, or follow all the goodness, at twitter.com/lifeofthefree. I’m Robert Dempsey with Life of the Freelancer, and I look forward to seeing you next time. Thanks.
What an awesome surprise to have this pop up in my Google Alerts! Big props/thanks to you, Robert – this rocks.
Great interview! I met Michelle this past Spring at the Blogher meetup and I am so happy to see her be so successful. I’m not a client but she’s very inspiring!